Let the CES RumorMongering begin!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Justin Thyme, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. Jan 4, 2006 #101 of 291
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

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    Lawrencevill...

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    With all the fuss about not enabling TiVo's HMO beacause of piracy risks they then go and send it all to the most secure environment on the planet !!!!!!
     
  2. Jan 4, 2006 #102 of 291
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    More CES keynote info... they just demo-ed an external Dell accessory CableCARD reader for Win MCE.
     
  3. Jan 4, 2006 #103 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    By golly, you are quite right. In note 63, I now see that you thought my comments applied to the Humax portable device. I was speaking in regards to the Humax Flat panel with integrated DirecTv tuner that DaveZatz mentioned in note 53, and which he further mentioned in his zatznotfunny article.

    The portable player is of little interest to me.
     
  4. Jan 4, 2006 #104 of 291
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    WOW! :)


    we were way off- I totally thought you were talking about the portable do dads and not the lcd. I knew somethign was strange but couldnt' figure out what the ehll was going on.

    Life is good!

    Now how bout some serious half baked awesome rumors...
     
  5. Jan 4, 2006 #105 of 291
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    NJ

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    1.0 or 2.0? Did he say?
     
  6. Jan 4, 2006 #106 of 291
    Kanyon71

    Kanyon71 New Member

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    Sorry but I must say youre off base here, any company who wants to invest the money in putting sats up is more then welcome to do so. There have been others and probably will be again for many years to come. Echostar and DirecTV just have happened to do it right and are still in business. You want HDTV choices? How about free? Go buy an Antenna and you can get the signal. You want Tivo on DirecTV? Go buy an SA and hook it up. A monopoly is defined as such:

    Exclusive control by one group of the means of producing or selling a commodity or service: “Monopoly frequently... arises from government support or from collusive agreements among individuals” (Milton Friedman).

    Last time I looked you had a choice, OTA, DirecTV, Dish Network, Cable, and now FiOS. Just because you want Tivo on DirecTV and don't like their DVR doesn't mean they have a monopoly. Oh and lest I forget you can still buy the big dishes.
     
  7. Jan 4, 2006 #107 of 291
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    Didn't say, wasn't plugged in, just emphasized digital cable and HD which we can't get now. Actually looked a bit bulky, but the idea of CC gaining traction appeals to me.

    They did a bunch profiling HD-DVD, you know the competing standard to Blu-ray. Showed a huge Toshiba unit to debut in March. Demo-ed some interactive disc features which struck me as fluff. Showed how you can make legal digital copies of movies to hard drive. In the Xbox360 segment they said an external HD-DVD drive is on the way - that's news tonight.

    Bill's back on stage speaking now... I think this might be the wrap-up. Man I'm fatigued. :)
     
  8. Jan 4, 2006 #108 of 291
    TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    I heard this on another forum regarding CES...

    These articles from today seems to confirm it...
    http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6296807.html?display=Breaking+News
    http://today.reuters.com/business/n...ST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ELECTRONICS-PANASONIC-DC.XML

    I thought TiVo and Comcast had a deal going, so I wonder how the Panasonic things fits in / conflicts with their plan... Any idea or thoughts?
     
  9. Jan 5, 2006 #109 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    I didn't say it was a monopoly, and I said I just as much wanted Apple and Microsoft and Sony competing for best "Satellite cablecard" device.

    But to go to the essense of the question: Is a monopoly the only form of abuse of dominant market position? Say Shell oil were to buy Hyundai, and make vehicles that only ran on fuel that could be made by Shell oil? Should that be legal?
     
  10. Jan 5, 2006 #110 of 291
    adavidw

    adavidw Member

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    That's really not true. While space is infinite, satellites need to be a certain distance from each other to facilitate aiming and prevent interference. The FCC grants licenses to companies for specific spots in the sky, and the number of those locations are very limited.

    So, let's say I've got a couple of billion dollars sitting around and want to throw up a satellite or two. I may be able to get them up there by hiring a rocket to send them up. However, once I get the birds there, they can't transmit to the US without an FCC license.

    Since the slots are basically full, the existing companies essentially have a monopoly. Not a true free market monopoly, but one granted by the US gubmint. Because of this status, the government and the citizenry have a little bit of a say in the operations of those companies, who are keen to keep their licenses.
     
  11. Jan 5, 2006 #111 of 291
    dt_dc

    dt_dc Mostly Harmless

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    The Panasonic boxes appear to be OCAP boxes so ...

    They'll run whatever OCAP software Comcast pushes to them.

    If Tivo has an OCAP version of their software ... Comcast could push that. Otherwise ...
     
  12. Jan 5, 2006 #112 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Looks like you were dead on regarding this. Dave remarked above that DirectTv will have connectivity to all Windows Media devices. That means Creative Zen, iRiver, Samsung Yepp and iPod lookalike- all of them. I wonder if this is a TivoToGo like transfer, a DirecTv tuner on a PCI card, or a communication protocol between NDS R15 units and recent Media center players. (my guess? -a one way DirecTv TTG), toGoBack only for IP content that pays DirecTv for rights to access PPV customers on R15's.

    But DirecTv is just one of many content sources.

    BillG announced that not only will DirecTv content work on Windows Media portable devices, but a huge slew of other media sources:
    • [*StarZ
    • Sky
    • MTV
    • Comedy Central
    • SHowtime
    • Movielink
    • Reuters
    • ABC
    • Fox/Fox sports
    • Akimbo

    It is clear that Gates does not want to see a repeat of the iPod debacle.

    Lots of questions- How much ABC content? Same deal as with Apple? How much of this is usable for display on a TV (eg. via Tivo), or a computer screen. Or is it just 320x240 stuff?

    And where is Realnetworks in all of this? How about other devices that have existing interfaces to MCE. Is Tivo odd man out, or did Gates hedge his bets and take no chances by including Tivo as a welcom member in orbit around the MCE?

    Oddly, the UI screen shots displayed the same sort of doltish UI that might be fine for dozens of shows, but not tens of thousands.

    And that is the supreme irony of all of this. Their single greatest weakness is staring them right in the face. The iPod victory was not just about having a great end to end story, but a very easy to figure out UI.
     
  13. Jan 5, 2006 #113 of 291
    TiVoPhish

    TiVoPhish New Member

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    Not sure I understand it right, so feel free to correct me, but from what I've read TiVo will have to completely redesign their software to work with OCAP (java based, not Linux based). Has there been any word they plan to develop an OCAP version?
     
  14. Jan 5, 2006 #114 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    The Tivo Comcast project is a port of TIvo software to run as an OCAP** application on a Motorolla box. Once Tivo creates this OCAP application, porting to another OCAP box used by Comcast, like those from SCI-ATL or Panasonic, would be relatively trivial. The code is not necessarily portable between different cable companies though because the head end intereactive services would be very different.

    OCAP stands for OpenCable Application Platform. You can read up on it here.

    [**EDIT- this is not fact, but conjecture, as noted later in this thread. Thanks DT.]
     
  15. Jan 5, 2006 #115 of 291
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    We need a rumor that the Starz thing is going to be announced to work with TiVo...direct downloads to your TiVo and watch on your TV.

    If you have a 16x9 set, you can take advantage of anamorphic 720x480 movies, and if you have a DVD-TiVo you get progressive scan component out (480p) and 5.1 digital audio too.
     
  16. Jan 5, 2006 #116 of 291
    dt_dc

    dt_dc Mostly Harmless

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    Northern...
    Tivo has to do some pretty major work (redesign or middleware) to make their software run on any of Comcast's existing boxes (Moto 64xx or 34xx, SciAtl 80xx or 83xx, etc) which seems to have always been the intent of the Comcast deal. I never got the impression Comcast wanted to distribute a "Tivo box" ... they seem to want to distribute Tivo software on their existing boxes so ...

    Tivo's got major work to do ...

    The question is ... how do they do it.

    Anyway, I don't know of anything that has ever specifically indicated they are developing an OCAP version. I also don't know of anything that has ever specifically indicated they are developing native apps or using some other non-OCAP middleware ...

    Comcast and Tivo were specifically vague on some of these points ... hopefully to let the engineers (from both sides) figure out the best approach ...
     
  17. Jan 5, 2006 #117 of 291
    dt_dc

    dt_dc Mostly Harmless

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    Northern...
    Love to know where you got that from ...

    While an OCAP port is certainly possible ... and would seem like a good step for Tivo ...

    I don't know of any specific source for a definitive statement like that.
     
  18. Jan 5, 2006 #118 of 291
    ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    Does anybody else think the "Best of CES" award logo resembles the label on some sort of canned food from Del Monte? What's more, the object upon which the text is written appears to be a lemon. Not good choices.
     
  19. Jan 5, 2006 #119 of 291
    ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    I don't think there is one. I've read the contract (at least the non-asterisked portions of it available in TiVo's 10-K, and there is nothing that specific.

    But one would hope that TiVo is building their business toward industry standards to the greatest extent possible. Since it is a management goal to have TiVo be an option on as many cables systems as possible, I think Justin's assumption is reasonable. But, unless he has some additional info that isn't public, it is an assumption.

    TiVo does have the option to port its system to additional Comcast DVR platforms that are not specified in the contract or added to it by Comcast. This additional development would be at TiVo's expense. In addition, the contract specifies a minimum percentage of Comcast subs to whom the "TiVo Experience" must be made available -- so if Comcast goes to another primary DVR platform, they would need to bring TiVo along with them.
     
  20. Jan 5, 2006 #120 of 291
    Kanyon71

    Kanyon71 New Member

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    Are there other car companies in existence that make the same sort of car for the same price range that will run on anyones gas? If so I don't really care what they do then. In the end I still have a choice, now if shell bought all the car makers and said all cars can only ru on our gas from this day forward I would have an issue with it. As of right now I have a choice of multiple providers (including 2 different sat companies) to choose from. I don't have to use DishNetwork or DirecTV but I choose to use DirecTV and can very easily move from them to Dish or Brighthouse.
     

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