Let the CES RumorMongering begin!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Justin Thyme, Dec 28, 2005.

  1. Jan 4, 2006 #81 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Welcome back from your hiatus. Perhaps we could open up a thread on DACA submitted by your pals last month as a christmas present to the country.
     
  2. Jan 4, 2006 #82 of 291
  3. Jan 4, 2006 #83 of 291
    interactiveTV

    interactiveTV New Member

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    My pals? You need a serious reality check, Justin. Jim DeMint is no friend of mine. I do agree with state franchise agreements though. I would think most consumers who want choice would rather see the competition that statewide franchise agreements would help foster with no obvious detriment to the consumer. The same cannot be said by your CONSTANT whimpers on why the DBS industry should lose its waiver and increase STB costs.

    If you feel we should open a thread on DACA, maybe you should. Not sure this is the right thread for that OR for the persistent call to end the DBS waiver -- a call whose sole purpose seems to be and for the exclusive cause of Tivo corporate. It's a cause I don't share nor even care about. I'm a Tivo consumer, not its corporate shill.

    Or maybe we can open a thread for Tivo shareholders to champion regulatory and legal changes that benefit their stock holdings. Barring that, the same old call to arms for the FCC to end the DBS waiver just keeps getting more and more boring. I've lost count on how many threads in which you've made the same plea -- regardless of their original topic. I stopped counting at 30...

    So, back to a thread which started with error-prone rumor mongering...the best kind!!

    I expect the usual fluff Tivo announcements including content -- and games and weather on my Tivo is very nice and with about a 50% rate of announcement to actual launch I take it all with a rock of salt -- the meat will have to be with HD from my standpoint -- being a CONSUMER and not a stakeholder. Very little else truly interests me. Tivo can make it so I can control my microwave through its very nice and ever-more convoluted interface (depth menus get old quickly on some stuff) but it won't keep me happy.

    My S1 does most of what I need a standard-def Tivo to do.

    I'd also like to see a MIGRATION strategy for moving season passes and other STB information to a new unit. We're WAY behind on that and perhaps you, will your programming ability, can comment on how difficult you would guess such a feature would be. Obviously, Tivo would like people to migrate from an S1 or S2 and making that process easier is important.

    Prototypes are nice. It's time for something more. My fingers are crossed.

    _ITV
     
  4. Jan 4, 2006 #84 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    I was pointing out that for cable, it is more than a "Menu system". Perhaps you understand something here that I don't. Is it possible to provide interactive functions on a cable device without using OpenCable software?

    There are plenty of vendors who build devices to conform to the demands of the service providers, not consumers. Humax is going after this market, and it is nothing new for them. They want to sell boxes. I'm a little surprised about this talk of what this means about their relationship with Tivo. As far as I know, Humax was making boxes for NDS before they made any for Tivo.

    I am curious about is whether this sort of thing gets them off the hook in regards to the 1996 telecom law requiring access for third party navigation devices.

    This may be a third party device which does navigation, but the design is controlled by the carrier. So when the government said that third party manufacturers could build devices to access their networks, would that have been satisfied if Ma Bell got to say how the users could interact with their phones (whether they could have speaker phones, auto answer, directories of phone numbers for quick dialing)? If the carrier controls the UI, does it qualify as a third party navigation device?
     
  5. Jan 4, 2006 #85 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Cablecard benefits Microsoft, Apple, Tivo and everyone else with plans to create third party navigation devices.

    Similarly for DBS, the same players would be creating competitive products, and the consumers benefit by vigorous competition. Why is DBS any different in kind in this respect? Show me where I am wrong.
     
  6. Jan 4, 2006 #86 of 291
    interactiveTV

    interactiveTV New Member

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    I'm not interested in the COMPANIES CC benefits. From a CONSUMER standpoint, CC fixes fundamental restraints long lacking with cable -- an industry literally born from monopoly.

    Because you want to "fix" something that is (less) broken.

    It comes down to two basic things, Justin, and I've mentioned them more than 10 times.

    1) can a consumer PURCHASE the set-top? Cable, until cable card, was a NO.
    2) is there sufficient choice and functionality in the STB?

    DBS offers not only the ability to OWN the set-top -- for a very reasonable price -- you also have many choices within a carrier AND you have a carrier choice (Dish or DirecTV). Both of those things are lacking with cable.

    I believe, from a CONSUMER stand-point, that right now DBS consumers have it pretty darn good. Not perfect and few consumers would ever admit to happiness with their (insert one here): tv provider, phone provider, dry cleaner, auto mechanic, etc.

    That said, the COST to open the DBS systems, especially in the middle of the current MPGE4 and more extensive HD offerings, would only INCREASE costs to consumers. There will be a lot to learn from the CC roll-outs and we've BARELY just begun.

    Your call to OPEN DBS NOW!!!! seems to ignore the consumer. Yes, choice is good but at what cost and what exactly is broken? There was NO CALL to open DBS when Tivo had a contract with DirecTV. That contract ends and all of sudden, let's open DBS. That smacks of let's help Tivo not let's help the consumer.

    Being able to PURCHASE a choice of STBs for your TV is the first step. Cable still needs that. Since DBS already has that, since consumers ALREADY can buy a cheap STB of their (limited but not too shabby) choice, I see NO REASON TO MUCK WITH DBS RIGHT NOW. None. I fail to see a compelling CONSUMER arguement. Make one. Not Tivo's. Make a consumer arguement where service costs don't dramatically increase.

    Most cable consumers have ONE choice of cable company. You have, almost everywhere, TWO choices of DBS service. You can buy your box. You have plenty to pick from and they are pretty damn cheap. Besides lacking Tivo -- and the Comcast/Tivo box won't be Cable Card either! -- where is the huge fire and consumer loss?

    Again, I think this is for another thread. As are the CONSTANT cries to open DBS. I get your point. Anyone who has read the constant cries gets your point. I see no consumer benefit right now.

    Yes, it benefits Tivo but that's not your job.

    _ITV
     
  7. Jan 4, 2006 #87 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Geosynchronous satellite positions are a limitted resource, and the owners of satellites in those positions are using that leverage to tell me what kind of UI and other features I get on my TV, DVR or other device that connects to that network. Does that sound fair to you? Let's look at DBS HD DVRs- Does one of two choices dictated by one of two duopolists seem like a choice to you?

    That is unfair to consumers, because they really have no choice in the matter. If they can't use cable for whatever reason, if you want HDTV, you have to buy the DBS solutions approved of by DISH or DirecTv. That's not a monopoly, but it is a duopoly.

    What you get in this atmosphere is CE vendors bending over backwards not to please consumers, but to please the Duopolists.

    Just as it is here, in the case of Humax trying to please DirecTv.

    Maybe it is enough for the Duopolist to dictate the user interface to CE vendors. That on paper might satisfy the 1996 telecom law. If the same principle were applied to the telco's then we'd still be stuck with this.
    [​IMG]
    Hey, and what a lovely world it was back then. Maybe they should have been able to dictate the interface on how people used long distance. Direct dial if using Ma Bell, or dialing 4 different 15 digit number sequences if using some other vendor.

    Great thinking there.
     
  8. Jan 4, 2006 #88 of 291
    Publius

    Publius New Member

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    New thought:

    What if TiVo wasn't going to announce anything at CES because they were going to announce something at MacWorld next week? What if Apple's announcement was actually a TiVo announcement and those rumors of 9 months ago actually had come to pass?

    (Ok, this would also require the following what ifs: What if Jobs didn't have an elephant-sized ego? And what if TiVo didn't blow up its relationships with Apple's content providers a few months ago... but we can dream, right?)
     
  9. Jan 4, 2006 #89 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    I still say the major thing for CES is not hardware, but some more major partner announcement with content vendors.

    Who knows, Gates may be desperate enough to leave nothing to chance and cut Tivo in on the StarZ deal. Of course transactions would require an MCE, so he gets his bone- and once he has dominance he does mopping up operations to eliminate Tivo and other non MS OS systems.

    We really have only a few more days for wild speculation, because after this is over all we get to do is wonder what kind of Intel chip Apple chose for its mini, whether they will lock out other DRMs on the unit, and what the price point will be.
     
  10. Jan 4, 2006 #90 of 291
    HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

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    My biggest take away from reading this thread is the lack of exciting rumor to monger.

    Edit...someone just posted the TiVo CES page; nothing there but old press releases from the last two months.

    So my rumor is nothing new from TiVo at CES other than perhaps some additional info about previously announced/known activities.

    MacWorld rumor: Nothing from TiVo.
     
  11. Jan 4, 2006 #91 of 291
    Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    Not true...signup for TiVo Desktop 2.3 Beta.
     
  12. Jan 4, 2006 #92 of 291
    Justin Thyme

    Justin Thyme Contra sceleris

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    Well, the pre-announcements are probably more interesting than the rumours, with the exception of the LA-Times one about a Google PC, which was very quickly put to rest by Google.

    I just don't think you are going to hear something here first that you haven't already heard coverred by the press. Engadget seems to be doing a great job keeping up with the information. Lots of information flow there.
     
  13. Jan 4, 2006 #93 of 291
    megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

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    The page just went up sometime this afternoon, and the show doesn't officially start until tomorrow. So it is likely any releases won't be put up until then at the earliest, so as not to 'spoiler' the announcements at the show.
     
  14. Jan 4, 2006 #94 of 291
    ChuckyBox

    ChuckyBox New Member

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    That's fine with me. In my experience, press conferences at shows are used to hype vaporware. I'd prefer TiVo to be on the floor demonstrating a working model of their new box, and giving a shipping date, than to have them blathering to the press about products and services that don't exist. TiVo under Tom Rogers seems to be in put-up-or-shut-up mode. I like that.

    Besides, any major news for TiVo will likely come out of Yahoo! or one of the other big players.
     
  15. Jan 4, 2006 #95 of 291
    nhaigh

    nhaigh Member

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    I agree. The ONLY news I really want to come out of CES is the date I can send TiVo my money for the new Cablecard box.
     
  16. Jan 4, 2006 #96 of 291
    jfh3

    jfh3 Active Member

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    Ditto. Especially now that I have a new high-def set. :)

    I'd like to hasten the move away from DirecTV since I won't be able to get locals without a new box.

    I don't like the Motorola 6412 Comcast interface. The Sony DHG isn't too bad, but it's no Tivo (though they are clearly using some Tivo patented features).

    I want the Tivo CC box or Tivo software that'll run on the Sony DVR.
     
  17. Jan 4, 2006 #97 of 291
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    sorry I think we were having 2 different conversations.

    But in regards to your question- I assume that the user is basuically connecting thumb drive (or hard drive I guess for more specifics) to a usb port on a DVR and having the dvr recognize it and then allowing the user to use the DVR UI to tell it what files to copy to the memory device. I dont really see how that needs to work with opencable at all. I think they just create a pretty little ui on the device to graphically mimic the ui the cableco or DBS has on their dvr's. Thats what i think these things are.

    But if they are something else please explain. apparently you think they are some sort of interactive cable box that mimics a black ma bell rotary phone of 1975? ;)

    I think NDS was working on some thing that uses a gsm modem to control the DVR remotely and schedule recordings and all that but these things from humax or thomson I think are bascially like video ipods that can connect to PC's or directv dvr's and appear as wdrm mass storage devices.
     
  18. Jan 4, 2006 #98 of 291
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    what he said!
     
  19. Jan 4, 2006 #99 of 291
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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  20. Jan 4, 2006 #100 of 291
    MichaelK

    MichaelK Active Member

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    isn't there a rumor floating around that Directv, Dish, and Tivo all were agreeing on a stadard to work with windows DRM? I think i saw it at dbs forums... Or did we debunk that.

    (or did TIVo get the same deal last year with gates?)
     

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