Leaving Neverland

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by xuxa, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Mar 4, 2019 #1 of 39
    xuxa

    xuxa Well-Known Member

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    Only have seen part one so far but it is going to make listening to Michael Jackson's music very hard to do. It is crazy how the world kinda knew this was happening but didn't want to acknowledge it or look into it deeper.
     
  2. Mar 4, 2019 #2 of 39
    cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    I'm not going to watch. I've always believed he was a pedophile. I don't need additional proof. It's always struck me as odd how the pedophile accusations never seemed to dent his music's availability after his death. His music is still played everywhere. Leaving Neverland may put a temporary dent in people playing Michael Jackson songs on the jukebox and the radio but it'll probably pass. It'll go back to "Man, that was one weird dude but I like this song."
     
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  3. Mar 4, 2019 #3 of 39
    gossamer88

    gossamer88 UHDTV Snob

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    Da boogie...
    I barely got through the first hour. It was just repeating the same thing over and over and over...
     
  4. Mar 4, 2019 #4 of 39
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    It's always interesting to me that "Roseanne" gets pulled for the lead's rants and "The Cosby Show" for its titular head's serial sexual assaults, and yet Michael Jackson lives on after repeated claims, by the victims, of his sexual predation on little boys.
     
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  5. Mar 4, 2019 #5 of 39
    sharkster

    sharkster Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    I watched pt1 this morning. It's quite compelling. I feel for these young men because I do believe them.

    The last MJ trial was right after I had stopped working so I was watching it on Court TV. One of the most striking bits of evidence for me was these two books MJ had in his bedroom. They were picture books of young boys. They were not Norman Rockwell pictures!

    These were pictures of naked boys bending wayyy over (I can still see this one with a little naked boy bending over a bridge), and doing other things. One of the books was the number one pedo book recommended by NAMBLA at the time and the other one was not far from that on the scale of most recommended. They showed some of the pics on tv with, of course, blurring because all the little boys were naked and posed in a variety of sexual ways.

    At that point, and with the other evidence, I was gobsmacked when the verdict came back as not guilty. Why would anybody have those books if they weren't a pedophile? /rhetorical, as there is no 'why'.
     
  6. Mar 4, 2019 #6 of 39
    Hoffer

    Hoffer Eat Lightning ----- Poo Thunder TCF Club

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    That is interesting about the picture books. I either never heard about that, or forgot.

    You're hearing in the news these days how pedos are using Youtube. Like they find family vacation videos with kids in them. Pedos then share those videos and timestamp locations of "the good parts of the video". Most of the family videos have a handful of views, but the ones the pedos find have thousands of views.

    Michael Jackson was a weird dude. I had nostalgia for him when he died, and watched videos and listened to his music. Otherwise, I haven't paid attention to him since the 80s. It would be nice if the rich couldn't always get acquitted of the terrible things they do.
     
  7. Mar 4, 2019 #7 of 39
    sharkster

    sharkster Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Yeah, the books were what cinched it for me. I don't even get how the jury wrote that off! If you're not a pedo, you don't have those books. period.
     
  8. Mar 4, 2019 #8 of 39
    Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Another reason to avoid posting personal pics on a public site. I don't need sickos looking at my kids that way.

    I was never an MJ fan, well at least since he left the J5. He had a couple of decent songs that I liked post J5. But, I was blown away when he died, how people felt about him. I remember one woman at work breaking down in tears. I honestly never realized that people felt that way about him, even despite the persistent rumors about his pedophilia.

    But it's just more proof that rich and/or famous people often can get away with things that the average person cannot.
     
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  9. Mar 4, 2019 #9 of 39
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    If I heard correctly this past weekend, YouTube either just has turned off or is in the process of doing so the comments section in "kid videos," for that reason.
     
  10. realityboy

    realityboy Well-Known Member

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    Both are back now in syndication.
     
  11. Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    A jury not finding MJ or OJ guilty didn't change my opinion that they both were.
     
  12. Wil

    Wil Unknown Member

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    Personally, I can listen to his music just as I did before, which happens to be not very often or with particularly great enthusiasm. I do have, always have had, the impression that this was a very gentle guy who would never knowingly or deliberately hurt anyone.

    The evidence that he sensually enjoyed the close company of young boys is overwhelming. But the evidence of overt sexual contact, while undeniably there, is too thin for a conviction if he were still alive and you put it all out there to a jury, IMO.

    Maybe he was impotent; maybe he just used self-control to limit actual unlawful contact, and existed on a thin line between sexual enjoyment and actual molestation. Maybe the very few personal testimonies that go beyond that are exaggerated or partly imagined, though very real in their sensing that Jackson was experiencing his relationship with them sexually. Jackson seems to me to have been a creep, but simultaneously very genuinely committed to not creeping out his boy friends or making their associations with him anything other than rewarding, non-threatening and not damaging.

    Or he may have been a child rapist, simple as that. But I don't see the evidence to convict.
     
  13. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    And with this movie, so is Michael Jackson. A mere coincidence? ;)
     
  14. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    I've seen some recent interviews of his child victims and they seem very convincing--I just don't see them gaining things from making false accusations, and of this type, here.

    Having said that, I listen to Wagner, and he was rabidly anti-Semitic. (His "Ring" cycle is not.)
     
  15. Hoffer

    Hoffer Eat Lightning ----- Poo Thunder TCF Club

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    I used the word nostalgia, and I think that is a lot of it. When he died, I recalled my childhood. Seeing him do the moonwalk at the American Music Awards. Staying up late to watch Friday Night Videos and see Beat It. I wasn't watching recent live performances of him on Youtube. I was watching videos from my childhood. I didn't cry when he died. A couple days later, I went back to having no interest in Michael Jackson.
     
  16. xuxa

    xuxa Well-Known Member

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    To Jackson, the sexual acts were not threatening or damaging to the children. He truly was in "love" with them and expressing it not accepting that it was wrong, in his mind the world view was wrong.
     
  17. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    I get that to some extent. I guess if you are a huge fan, you tend to overlook the bad aspects of someone's lifestyle. And you can justify it because he was found not guilty too. To me, something like pedophilia, or Rape, or, well, murder, would be where someone would lose me.
     
  18. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    I think I've seen that same thing in multiple "Law and Order: SVU" pedophile episodes.
     
  19. sharkster

    sharkster Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    I didn't get the impression of him being impotent, only that he wanted to do it with boys. Both of the boys on this documentary have said that he - uh, what can I say here - did his own thing while watching the boys posed on all fours spread eagle, and stuff. He finished and didn't seem to have a problem, uh, getting it going.

    I almost kinda sorta can believe that he didn't feel like he was a predator. This was what gave him pleasure and, maybe in some backwards world, he just thought he was spreading love.

    OTOH, however, it seems pretty obvious that he was grooming them and their families pretty heavily, plus keeping it secret and telling them that they couldn't tell, etc, so there had to be some level of awareness on his part.
     
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  20. cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    Personally, I think the majority of Michael Jackson's "issues"stemmed from the really crappy way his father treated him as a kid and he and his damaged id withdrew into his personal fantasy world as an adult. It's hard for amny people to find normalcy after a sh*tty childhood with sh*tty parent(s).
     

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