Kid Nation Finale 12/12

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by dthmj, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Dec 15, 2007 #81 of 127

    heySkippy oldweakandpathetic

    Jul 2, 2001
    Sarasota, FL


    Thanks Aaron. I love insights from experts. I hope someday they make a TV show about writing software that rates commercial lines insurance policies so I can be the expert! :D
  2. Dec 15, 2007 #82 of 127

    marksman ID-10-T

    Mar 4, 2002

    I think the crux of the argument though, is the producers don't beleive the children were working. So things like oSHA standards would not be relevant.

    If you filmed a bunch of kids in the park climbing trees, you would not be responsible for providing them fall safety.

    I am not saying it is right or wrong, but I think that is the premise the production company has taken.

    And reading your definition of work and employee, I still think an argument can be made that they are not employees.

    Traditional reality show contestant adults are not considered employees as far as I know. In fact only in limited circumstances, ie being in the Final 10 on American Idol do reality show contestants cross over to become performers.

    I think a lot of that would be relevant when deciding if these kids are working or not. I would also say the fact that the kids were not required to do anything while they were there would also be something against them actually working.

    It is quite possible if the kids are employees that child labor laws were violated. Still not clear to me that the kids are really employees, as opposed to being game show/reality show participants/contestants.
  3. Dec 15, 2007 #83 of 127

    Amnesia The Question

    Jan 30, 2005
    Boston, MA
    So by that logic Girl Scouts are employees of the camp?

    Sorry, there is no difference between the survey situation and Kid Nation:
    • Who sets the work rules? If by "work" you mean taking the survey, then it's the company. If by "work" you mean the entire Kid Nation experience, it's the production company.
    • Who determines the hours of work? If by "work" you mean time to take the survey, then it's the company. If by "work" you mean the 40-day schedule, it's the production company.
    • Who provides the tools? If by "tools" you mean the pen, paper, etc, then it's the survey company. If by "tools" you mean Bonanza city, it's the production company.
    • Whose insurance covers accidents on the job? Frankly, I don't know what the situation was at Kid Nation, but I know that the parents had to sign liability waivers. I certainly have no inside knowledge that the production company accepted legal liability for any accidents at Kid Nation any more than a survey company accepts liabilities for accidents that occur when I take a survey.
    • How much direction is provided by the empolyer? For the survey, complete direction. For Kid Nation, less than complete direction
    No, in answer to each of these questions, those kids were no different than the survey taker.
  4. Dec 15, 2007 #84 of 127

    dthmj Hinky TCF Club

    Mar 12, 2002
    1. Yeah, the parents are there - but also in Kid Nation it was the parents that sent them off to participate (and signed various contracts in the process).

    2. While some of it is normal activities, I suspect the producers have them do certain activities - like they had a celebrity chef come and teach the mom about cooking (and they then filmed the kids napping (or not napping as they case may be) - this could not have been a "normal activity" - no way a celebrity chef comes to my house - it was done because TLC was taping. Same as taking all 10 of them to Disney World - I doubt they could have afforded that trip on their own. I think that the producers of that show set things up that are outside of their normal activities for the entertainment of the masses. And while I like that show as well, and I think the Gosslings are doing what they need to do for their 8 children, there is a degree of "exploitation" going on.

    3. So what is the amount of time one kid can be recorded? How do we know in Kid Nation that same precaution was not taken?

    P.S. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand and take advantage of the expert in the room :)

    Edit - I found another show that is probably a closer analogy to Kid Nation - Endurance on Discovery Kids. They take 20 kids (between the ages of 13-15 it looks like) and the compete survivor style. More info -
  5. Dec 15, 2007 #85 of 127

    EMoMoney Big and Tall

    Oct 30, 2001


    Then by these standards, how is this any different from any child actor? Unless you have read the contract that was signed by the children and parents, I do not understand how you can claim there were violations of any federal labor laws.
  6. Dec 15, 2007 #86 of 127

    Amnesia The Question

    Jan 30, 2005
    Boston, MA
  7. Dec 15, 2007 #87 of 127

    marksman ID-10-T

    Mar 4, 2002
    Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but there is a blurb in this week's Entertainment Weekly about KN and they mention that New Mexico has dropped their investigation of the production.
  8. Dec 15, 2007 #88 of 127

    justapixel Domestic Extremist Staff Member

    Sep 27, 2001
    The Nanny State
    Okay, was this the thread I was called to?

    I skipped over the legal argument.

    My friend's kid was Nathan. I believe I am allowed to tell you that now that the show is over. One of the reasons I didn't post in a lot of these threads is she had no insight into the show as she sent Nathan off to boarding school for music, and they didn't watch the show together. They would talk about it in conversations later, but for Nathan, it happened a while ago and he's moved on.

    She did say he now has a rabid fan in another state. :)

    I found it interesting that in the scenes of the kid's singing, Nathan never appeared in them, but he is a fabulous singer of the Morman Tabernacle type. The only time we heard him sing was one scene at night where he was apparently annoying the other kids, and the producers were trying to make him seem "weird" but I'm guessing that was fake singing because it was off-key.

    The only new tidbit I got was her surprise that many of the things that happened were shot over. It wasn't as spontaneous as you would think. In fact, Nathan admitted that there were recreations of events that had happened previously. There was one scene that was shot at a different time and place than it had happened - that was the scene where the kids were apologizing to Nathan. So, these kids had to have been chosen, in part, for their acting abilities or potential acting abilities.

    Another tidbit: he never considered the red kids friends, and on the last night slept with yellow just to get away from Jared's "anger management problem". His best friend there was Alex.

    She is going to give an explanation of what the last day of shooting was like, and I'll post it here, with her permission. Maybe I'll ask her to participate here so she can answer your questions directly.
  9. Dec 15, 2007 #89 of 127

    BrandonRe Well-Known Member

    Jul 14, 2006
    Baton Rouge, LA

    When you talk to your friend, can you ask her if the Q&A on the CBS KidNation page is really Nathan's own words, or hers, or the producers'? I was just looking at it and it doesn't sound at all like an 11 year old's answers to me. Of course, I know none of these kids were "average" kids.
  10. Dec 15, 2007 #90 of 127

    justapixel Domestic Extremist Staff Member

    Sep 27, 2001
    The Nanny State
    I'll ask but I'm pretty sure Nathan wrote it.
  11. Dec 16, 2007 #91 of 127

    Enrique Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2006
    How so? :confused:
  12. Dec 16, 2007 #92 of 127

    Kablemodem Get the ketchup.

    May 26, 2001
    What was the stuff they made as part of the final challenge? It was supposed to be pasta, but it looked like mashed potatoes.
  13. Dec 16, 2007 #93 of 127

    JLucPicard Active Member

    Jul 8, 2004
    West St....
    I was thinking, too, that sure didn't look like pasta and I am as positive as I can be (not having been there) that the "pasta" that they made was definitely not something they wound up eating. Served it's purpose for the challenge though.

    And JAP, THANK YOU for getting this back to a discussion about the actual show! :D
  14. Dec 16, 2007 #94 of 127

    uncdrew Annie 2.0

    Aug 6, 2002
    Down South
    I liked Nathan. A bit reserved and OCD perhaps (due to show editing), but a good kid and hard worker.
  15. Dec 16, 2007 #95 of 127

    atrac New Member

    Feb 27, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I'm not sure why, but Sophia kept reminding me of Jodie Foster. She doesn't really look like her, but I dunno..maybe it was the tomboy aspect of her personality. ;)

    I was surprised to see that Jared didn't really look anything like his parents.
  16. Dec 16, 2007 #96 of 127

    MisterBubble Makes Bathtime Fun!

    Oct 30, 2005
    Central Florida
    bahahaha yes... that "pasta" had me laughing too. It was like one of those play-doh pumper things. The "noodles" came out so thick yet mushy looking. Cut later to the parents enjoying the meal they cooked, and it looked straight out of a box.

    Count me in as sorry to see this show end (and I was one who never thought I'd be interested in this show in the least) - but I thought they did a great job with the finale. And I was a Sophia fan since Day One - so her second star really pleased me. She was the heart and soul of Bonanza City.

    Hey, I have an idea... if they DO film a second season, bring Sophia back to run the challenges and moderate the council meetings. She IS a 40-year-old trapped in a 14-year-old body, after all! Then it could really seem like the kids were without adult influence. Now if we could just get an all-kid camera crew and drop the corny journal. :D
  17. Dec 16, 2007 #97 of 127

    Jeeters Registered Snoozer

    Feb 25, 2003
    I noticed the following in the finale....

    Right before they started the challenge, they do a bird's-eye shot looking down at the kids standing in a group while the host does a count down to the start of the challenge... "Three!.... Two!....".
    They cut to a ground shot for a second, and then cut back to the aerial group shot...
    "One!...". The kids are now standing in *completely* different positions within the group.
    Some that were in the front are now in the back, some that were to the right of the group are now to the left, etc. It was obviously something they filmed twice for some reason requiring the kids to regroup and go through the same motions.
  18. Dec 16, 2007 #98 of 127

    justapixel Domestic Extremist Staff Member

    Sep 27, 2001
    The Nanny State
    Here's Nathan's mom's reply to the question about the bio:

    Also, she pointed me to a scrapbooking group where the mom of the two sisters hangs out. Here's a thread where Tina is discussing her kid's experience.

    She said the one thing that was different was she did get the call right after Nathan won the gold star, not the next morning, as the other mom says. She also says Nathan isn't OCD - he really, really wanted that gold star and worked so hard to get it. At home, he works like any other boy. :) And, he's very much into bionicles. Which is interesting, as I think his IQ is higher than my son (who is "gifted" - hate that word - and extremely articulate and sounds just like those children when he speaks) and my kid wouldn't be caught dead playing with toys. :)

    Oh, for the record, this is an online friend, we've never met in real life. We've been members of the same group since we were pregnant with our children who were both born in January of 97.
  19. Dec 16, 2007 #99 of 127

    heySkippy oldweakandpathetic

    Jul 2, 2001
    Sarasota, FL
  20. Maui

    Maui Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2000
    Decatur, IL
    Thanks for the link. I really enjoyed reading her posts.

    This stood out to me and is why I have always done my best not too be openly negative about any of the kids (or any reality TV folks)

    These days you can just never be sure who is lurking on various forums reading your posts.

    Interesting though that she did not have anything nice to say about Greg. Apparently, we never saw him at his worst.

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