Jay Leno is killing NBC

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Turtleboy, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. Frank_M

    Frank_M New Member

    391
    0
    Sep 9, 2001
    Shrewsbury, MA

    Advertisements

    Johnny had an edge. I know people have tagged Dave as "mean-spirited" but he just doesn't suffer fools... and neither did Carson.

    Oh, and I agree that Jay continued to do mostly the vanilla show he did as guest host. But remember, Letterman guest hosted too... and when he did, he was tame. No one wanted to upstage Carson when they guest hosted. That's what got Joan Rivers the boot.

    The difference was, when Jay and Dave had their chances to have their own show... Dave made it his own, and Jay just kept trying to play to the safe middle.

    Carson didn't do that. I know when you watch old Carson shows now they might seem tame, but that's just because times have changed.

    Hope that better explains what I meant. Only my opinion, of course, but thanks for letting me clarify it.
     
  2. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    I mentioned this earlier in the thread: The reason why these things happen is because a network has an embarrassment of riches. The only way to avoid such situations is to hire crappier people.
     
  3. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,224
    4,561
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    This is the portion of your post that I think bears response. In 1993, CBS was happy to take whichever one of Dave or Jay didn't get the Tonight Show job. If Dave had been picked, Leno would have started his own show on CBS. There's no way to know whether the ratings battle would have turned out the same way, but to say that Dave would have been the only late-night host and CBS would have just given up on the dream and Leno would have faded into the woodwork is pretty naive, IMO.
     
  4. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    24,413
    1,919
    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    Wasn't there also some talk about FOX enterring the late night wars back then? If memory serves the late night wars were just before FOX stole the NFL from CBS as Letterman had just jumped over to CBS in time for the NFL to be gone... I remember his monologues where he had to lament that loss and somewhat question if he'd made the right decision on where to take his show.
     
  5. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida

    Advertisements

    Fox was presenting Arsenio Hall's show in that time slot, in 1993.
     
  6. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

    59,224
    4,561
    Apr 16, 2003
    Arizona
    For the first several years of Dave's show on CBS, he ripped on CBS because it was in the tank as far as ratings go. It wasn't until the last 7-8 years that CBS has established its ratings dominance.
     
  7. aintnosin

    aintnosin [Spoiler]

    3,527
    3
    Jun 25, 2003
    Lake Forest, CA
    Arsenio was never on Fox. He was syndicated (his show was probably on a Fox station where you were, but not in my town).
     
  8. nataylor

    nataylor Curiously Strong TCF Club

    39,986
    7,238
    Apr 26, 2000
    Houston, TX
    FOX's late night experiment in 1993 was the Chevy Chase Show.
     
  9. terpfan1980

    terpfan1980 It's Just TV TCF Club

    24,413
    1,919
    Jan 28, 2002
    Xbox Live:...
    I remember Chevy Chase being there, but I think for a while back when Letterman was 'a free agent' that there was some talk he might have gone to FOX. He wound up going with CBS and has been there ever since, but I thought that there was at least some rumors of him (Letterman) possibly going to FOX.

    I might be thinking of when Letterman was due for a contract renewal with CBS and was again considering other possibilities (ABC if they moved Nightline, etc.) so it's hard to tell where possibilities of Letterman on FOX ever came in...
     
  10. Frank_M

    Frank_M New Member

    391
    0
    Sep 9, 2001
    Shrewsbury, MA
    I'd quibble with "naive" but you're entitled to think that. I just feel that Dave had a built-in, loyal audience. People that would follow him wherever he went. That's why he could sustain what he did at CBS. I think Jay was propped up by having the built-in audience for the Tonight Show. I think if Dave had had both things going for him, and Jay was the one who went to CBS? That Jay would have gone the way of a lot of other failed late night hosts. He just never has engendered that kind of loyalty. He's safe for all audiences. He does what he does well, but I think without "Tonight Show" in his title, he wouldn't have made it.
     
  11. stujac

    stujac Member

    2,343
    0
    Jan 26, 2002
    I agree with this. I also believe Dave would have never gone to Fox.
     
  12. zalusky

    zalusky Well-Known Member TCF Club

    9,373
    1,494
    Apr 5, 2002
    Cupertino, CA
    Which is exactly why the lead-in argument is all BS. NBC has been in the tank for many years yet still won the late night wars against CBS.

    It's possible it affected the local news because people are not seeing their teasers but I think Tonight was a destination show and people turned to it based on a comfort level and not because they were to lazy to work the remote.
     
  13. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

    58,743
    15,325
    Oct 17, 2000
    Minneapolis
  14. trainman

    trainman Nice to see you

    11,716
    1,271
    Jan 29, 2001
    Sherman...
    He was the host of Fox's "The Late Show" for 13 weeks in mid-1987, but he was replaced by "The Wilton North Report" (for which Conan wrote). He couldn't have been made a permanent host at that point because he had already committed to filming "Coming to America."

    When "The Wilton North Report" tanked, Fox brought back "The Late Show." They attempted to get Arsenio back, but he'd already signed a deal with Paramount for what premiered as the syndicated "Arsenio Hall Show" in early 1989 -- which, since Fox had canceled "The Late Show" in late 1988, ended up being carried by a good number of Fox affiliates in the same time slot.
     
  15. bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    That's right! The Late Show. I knew I remember Arsenio Hall on Fox.
     
  16. ElJay

    ElJay Active Member

    2,105
    12
    Apr 6, 2005
    Leno on Oprah from my biased point of view:

    It's obvious that he's incredibly annoyed that Conan forced himself into the spot in 2004, which is completely understandable. NBC wanted to keep Conan, who was entertaining offers from other networks at the time, and Leno felt "disrespected" by the process. Leno then went on talking about this move as if Conan was bumping him out after only 7 months or so on the job. Tons of obsession from Leno about #1 ratings. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1. #1.

    Leno evidently couldn't understand that Conan had the same ambitions that Leno once held, and didn't like that he was #1 and being forced out anyway. He wanted to be on the decline before he was replaced.

    Leno said his show failed because it was a "late night talk show at 10pm." He "felt bad for his affiliates." "It was making money for the network; it wasn't making money for the affiliates." Leno said he had "no strings to pull" about replacing Conan on "The Tonight Show." He asked to be released from his contract after the 10pm show was canceled and was rejected. At that point he was asked by NBC and agreed to 11:35pm. NBC didn't know what Conan's reaction was going to be, but they thought they had a 75% chance of success.

    Leno commented on Conan's letter and desire to not move his show to 12:05: "The ratings were destructive to the franchise." "It was the first time in the 60 year history of the Tonight Show that it would have lost money." "If the numbers had been there, they wouldn't have asked me, and they only asked me after Conan turned it down." (Actually no, you were ready to go to 11:35pm before Conan turned it down without any idea about what Conan was going to do.)

    Leno expected to be cut down at 10pm to 2-3 days per week. He feels Conan's "Tonight Show" got to fly under the radar with bad ratings because the focus was all on Leno's 10pm show. A lot of "damage control" has to be done now at "The Tonight Show."

    "I always felt I was doing the right thing. How could you do the right thing and have it go so wrong? Maybe I'm not doing the right thing. This many people are angry and upset over a television show. I had a show, my show got canceled. They weren't happy with the other guy's show, they said 'we want you to go back.' I said 'OK,' and this seemed to make a lot of people upset. Who wouldn't take that job?"

    "I'm not sure what I could have done differently. Walking away is an ego decision. That's me going, 'goodbye everybody. I'm fed up with this, you all fend for yourselves. Good luck finding jobs. I'm out of here.' That's the ego decision." "They offered my old job back. The dream job."

    Kimmel appearance on Leno's show was a "sucker punch." "I could have edited it but I didn't."

    Leno hasn't talked to Conan. He wanted to pick up the phone but "it didn't seem appropriate." "It's not the right time, I'm not sure what I would say right now. Let some time pass and I would hope we could talk." "I felt really bad for Conan. I think it's unfair, but TV is not fair. I thought it was unfair for me." "I wasn't the reason (for Conan being pushed out). The reason was the ratings."
     
  17. Enrique

    Enrique Well-Known Member

    5,123
    32
    May 15, 2006
  18. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    2
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    WGN Morning news: "What does it say when a talk show host has to go on another talk show to get his message out?"
     
  19. Amnesia

    Amnesia The Question

    11,545
    593
    Jan 30, 2005
    Boston, MA
    What's the "no" for? He didn't say that he wasn't ready to go to 11:35. Of course he was.
     
  20. ElJay

    ElJay Active Member

    2,105
    12
    Apr 6, 2005
    NBC came to Leno and said 11:35 is going to be yours again. Leno says I'll do it, but what does Conan think about that? NBC says they don't know but think there's a 75% chance that Conan will gleefully accept 12:05. Then at another point in the interview, Leno was trying to claim Conan already rejected 12:05 before he accepted going back to 11:35. I don't know why he said that when it doesn't add up at all.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements