Jay Leno is killing NBC

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Turtleboy, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. IJustLikeTivo

    IJustLikeTivo Active Member

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    Conan was paid a lot for that.... Besides the Friends of Coco will take care of it for him.
     
  2. IJustLikeTivo

    IJustLikeTivo Active Member

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    If you watched the entire interview, he did say that essentially.

    Then he was asked the second question and said what a normal guy would say.

    "If you were offered a better setup than you have now, would you take it"

    Most of us have faced that question. We've all been offered promotions and usually there is another candidate or the existing person isn't doing well. It's not our job to fix that, our job is to answer the question. I don't see that as backhanded. Unless, your behind helping the existing person to be found deficient. In this case, NBC had long since decided that Conan wasn't getting good ratings. Something was going to happen.
     
  3. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    NBC is hoping that the CoCo hype can't last 6 months. With the blogosphere, they'll be proven way, way wrong.

    Besides, if say, Fox made a deal they could start hyping the new Conan show starting this afternoon to keep it in front of the public's consciousness.
     
  4. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    It's strange, but I'm not really a friend of Coco. I mean, I always liked Conan fine...but if I am watching anything in late night, it's always been Johnny or Dave.

    I have just hated Leno for so long...like 42% of my whole life... that I am always rooting for the other guy. It's like he's the Cowboys. :) Who do you root for on Sunday in Pittsburgh? The Steelers...and whomever is playing the Cowboys. :)

    Conan just happens to be playing the Cowboys.
     
  5. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    His opinion is level-headed...but his credibility breaks down for me when he asserts that Carson wasn't pushed out by NBC. I'll never believe that, so his credibility is shot for me.
     
  6. Amnesia

    Amnesia The Question

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    Why won't you believe that? Do you have some inside information or are you just a Jay-hater?
     
  7. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    I was not a Jay-hater till after the Carson thing. I used to watch Jay every Monday night and in the summers when Carson went to Wimbledon. I thought he was cute...in the cute-funny way, not the cute-hot way. His humor was...cute and he was inoffensive.

    The reason I don't believe it is that I happen to believe Bill Carter's (of the New York Times and the book "the Late Shift") take on the whole thing. I believe that Johnny was in no hurry to retire, and that Jay's manager took it upon herself to push things along by humiliating Johnny in public.

    As I said before, at this point, Johnny had been with the network for a lot of years...so why would he hastily announce his departure at a routine affiliate meeting, rather than discussing it with his bosses ahead of time? He did not resign in the traditional sense...he just announced in front of the affiliates that he was leaving. As I also said above, he did not wait for his 30th anniversary, which I always thought was strange. He was hurt, and mad, and he got out as quickly as he could.

    If there were no hard feelings between Johnny and NBC, why did we only ever see him on Letterman after that? Johnny still got up in the morning, read the paper and wrote jokes...all through his retirement, that's what he did. Did he give the jokes to Leno? Nope, he gave them to Letterman.

    These things reinforce my belief that Bill Carter is right. Johnny did not jump on his own. Jay's manager pushed him out.

    So, I've been quite anti-Jay ever since.
     
  8. stujac

    stujac Member

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    This is exactly how I see it too. Jay was smarmy as hell for claiming he had nothing to do with it; didn't know about it; it was all the agent, etc., etc.
     
  9. JYoung

    JYoung Series 3

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    Nobody's stopping you from linking to those people.

    And I've followed Mark Evanier's work for years. That's why I put stock in his thoughts.

    Even Lori's chief reference, Andy Ihnatko bows to Evanier when it comes to the Industry.

    Carson's last show was May 22, 1992 which was the end of the TV season.
    It's a pretty reasonable stopping point (and it was during sweeps).

    I'm sure that Kushnick's story pissed him off and he reportedly vowed that he'd never help Leno.

    But I don't think that Kushnick pushed him out as in forcing him to quit. NBC executives lived in absolute terror of Carson so he could have crushed Kushnick and Leno if he wanted to. My guess is he decided he didn't need to put up with this crap and it was a good time to go out while on top.

    And to both you and Turtleboy, I also have no dog in this fight.
    I've never been particularly a fan of either O'Brien or Leno.

    I just don't see what Leno did wrong in this instance (other than producing a crappy 10 PM show).
     
  10. IJustLikeTivo

    IJustLikeTivo Active Member

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    Johnny left cause he felt humiliated. Johnny was know to be very vindictive and punished people he did not like by banning them from his show. NBC was making no money on it's highest rated show but were powerless to change it. When Helen did that nasty business about hinting that NBC wanted him out, it was wrong but NBC was thrilled that their dirty secret was out. JC got ticked out and walked. He regretted it and took out his regret on everyone he could. Regardless, NBC was now, finally making money and had no intention of going back. Did Helen push? Almost certainly, but there is no evidence that Jay did anything, then or now.

    Should he have fired her? Probably, but the network did that 4 month later anyway. I'm not sure being loyal to a manager who lost her husband to cancer, a son to AIDs and was battling breast cancer is the worst thing in the world.
     
  11. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    Possibly not. But by keeping her on, Jay owned her behavior. She humiliated Johnny Carson. I blame Jay for that. So, yes, that taints everything else Jay ever did, or will do. At this point, Jay could retire to minister to the sick in Calcutta and I don't think that it would change the way I feel about him.

    You say that Johnny was vindictive toward those who crossed him. On the other side, Carson was also famously loyal to those close to him. If he held Jay blameless, I think that he would have remained loyal to him, and to the show. It's obvious to me--through observing his behavior for the 12 years or so that he lived after he retired--that he did not, in fact, hold that Jay was blameless. It's obvious to me that he had no time for Leno and that is telling for me.

    See, I'm not a friend of Coco. I'm a friend of Carson. :)
     
  12. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    NBC could have done like Lyndon Johnson did with J. Edgar Hoover, announce that he had the job for life.

    "Responding to reports that Johnny Carson will be retiring, NBC issued a statement, "We would like Johnny Carson to continue with The Tonight Show as long as he desires. NBC has full faith in him. Johnny is NBC's late night bedrock."

    If Johnny was p*ed it was because NBC didn't say a thing.

    Peter Lasally said Johnny didn't want to stick around too long like Bob Hope did. He thinks Johnny picked the time to go out on top.
     
  13. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    You are certainly entitled to your opinion of Leno. And I can see that it's got some solid basis. But this quote of yours shows that it wouldn't matter whether Leno was complicit in this whole Conan thing or not, you'd blame him anyway. So don't be surprised when your admittedly biased opinion about the whole thing is questioned and criticized by those with more objective viewpoints.
     
  14. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    Totally agree with all of this.

    I just wish that he had gone out in November, after the appropriate amount of pomp and circumstance. He still would have gone out on top. But he would have gone out feeling great. And who knows? Maybe Jay doesn't have such a rocky first couple of years if he has Carson for counsel.

    NBC is all about the short game. They don't think beyond their noses.
     
  15. lambertman

    lambertman With an "L"

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    Some pretty pointed pro-Jay and anti-Conan comments were found amidst a fairly droning interview Dick Ebersol did today on The Dan Patrick Show. Podcasts are up at danpatrick.com if you're interested.
     
  16. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Thanks for the tip. Even though I remain convinced that NBC didn't really have much choice in this whole matter (by virtue of having both hosts under contract and the affiliates pushing Leno out of prime-time), I still think what Ebersol said about Conan (a couple of weeks ago, haven't listened to this podcast yet) was completely uncalled for and inaccurate. There was no need for Ebersol, or anyone else at NBC to try and blame this mess on Conan. It was simply an unfortunate business decision that had to be made.
     
  17. Lori

    Lori Social Defective

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    Understood. I have not tried to hide how I feel about Mr. Leno, precisely because I am so biased.

    Truth be told, he probably *was* less complicit in Cocogate than he was in the original Late Night Wars. His biggest mistake here was allowing his truly ginormous ego to sign that appallingly ill-advised 10:00 contract. Ben Franklin has been dead for 250 years, and even HE knew that Jay at 10 was a bad idea. And he should not have said that he wanted 11:30 back. I know that you guys don't think that he tried to get them to fire Conan, and I believe that. That is not his style. He's sneakier than that. He probably hid in a closet, and overheard some conversation where Jeff Zucker said that they would fire Conan if only they could be sure that Leno would go back to latenight. The little cogs in his little mind started spinning...and voila! "...if I can only figure out how to let them know..."

    Only half serious here. But, at the same time, that means that I'm only half-kidding. :)
     
  18. ewolfr

    ewolfr .

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    I think that same thing about Ebersol when he did the NYTimes interview: He's an exec at NBC. What else is he going to do besides back the boss (Zucker)? He knows where his bread is buttered and I wouldn't expect him to say anything other than what's best for NBC lest he drag the network down even further by stating something like, "Pushing Conan out was a huge mistake Why did we do that?"
     
  19. zalusky

    zalusky Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    You know if Johnny wanted to work some more why did he not just go to CBS like Letterman wound up doing. I am sure they would have taken him in a microsecond and he would have trounced Jay.
     
  20. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Ebersol says that all the parties involved have signed non-disparagement agreements not to talk bad about the other parties until at least September 1, 2010.

    He says that the biggest mistake made in all of this was signing Conan to replace Leno in 2004. He said it was stupid of NBC to think Leno's ratings would erode. He likened it to five years ago Fox thinking that American Idol would eventually stop being #1 in the ratings, so signing a deal to replace it. Then when the time comes, AI is still #1, but they kick it off the air anyway.
     

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