Is it time to "Cut Tivo"? The "clouds" are looming.

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by mswlogo, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Been running TIVO for a long time.

    My Series 3 has been flawless. OTA 1TB. No regrets.

    But I've been on a watt cutting binge. One thing that stands out a lot is my Tivo. 30 watts.
    I tried 3 times to upgrade (2 Bolt's and 1 RoamIO). The picture quality was clearly, to my eyes worse.

    We probably have 5 programs we care about on it these days, if that.

    I was willing to look the other way and give in on the Picture Quality, since we watch so little on it. I'm also willing to look the other way around the cooling/fan issue I recall the last time I researched a Bolt. I know the Series 3 is due to die soon. But I'm not gonna pay $250 for "All-in". I contacted TIVO and they would not budge. I know the $99 deal will come around again. I'm itching to clean up things and move forward now.

    One of the primary things my wife watches is PBS. We can't use the PBS Streaming because none of our boxes handle that. So I could get a Roku (Always wanted one, but had no justification, stream in the LG has been flawless and easy). We already get PBS streaming service for free because of regular donations. This might even open up more programming we didn't have.

    2-3 of the shows we watch on TIVO is on Netflix already. Probably always 1 season behind. Hey we "lost" programming back when we "cut cable", never really missed it. We'll have plenty to choose. So we might lose a few things when we "cut TIVO". And because of this, more and more "OTA" is popping up as Streamed.

    A friend had Dish and just switched to Dish over IP. She went from $120 to $40 (something like that). And she gets a "small" cloud based DVR with it (which she could enlarge for a fee). She gets Dish through her Roku. Including Local Broadcast.

    I bet TIVO could have a Cloud based DVR service cheaper than it cost for electricity to run a local DVR.

    I think it may be time. TIVO is going to join Block Buster if they don't get creative. It's probably already to late and just milking folks that don't know how to let go.

    I think the only thing I'd really miss is Pausing / Backing up a live broadcast (e.g. news), something I would not normally even record.
     
  2. rdrrepair

    rdrrepair Bill Knapp

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    You haven't been keeping up with what's new and in the potential pipeline for TiVo. They are innovating and perhaps a cloud based DVR is close at hand. Streaming service via TiVo... Perhaps? Android and Apple streamers instead of minis at each tv. Out of home viewing on a tablet or smartphone. Programming via their apps. Network remote controls.

    Any Tivo CES 2019 news? Try this. Currently 10 pages deep. Several links to new stuff in the works. TiVo Ted has stopped in and commented too.

    Been a happy TiVo owner since December of 2000. Have owned everything from a Sony series 1 to their newest offerings. I don't think I'm uniformed or a clueless rube. They've got many miles to go and more innovations to release. Yep, I'm a fan and a very happy customer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
    Willy92 likes this.
  3. stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    1: Cloud based isn't the magical unicorn everyone thinks it is.

    2: While I agree, and have said in the past, that TiVo must "innovate or die", the imminent death of TiVo has now been predicted for two decades.
     
  4. tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

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    Your biggest users of electricity in your house are your major appliances. Your refrigerator also throws out heat while you are running AC. WATT busting is a waste of time, air drying your clothes and stop using energy hog dryers now you are making a difference. Cloud DVR's still are not comparable to hardware dvr's. In a number of ways cloud dvr's are a step backwards to what you are used to.
     
    Willy92 likes this.
  5. zombiephysicist

    zombiephysicist Member

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    Interface on all cloud services is awful. That they FORCE you to watch commercials is unacceptable. While I'm not against the concept, every single implementation that is tried keeps me running back to TiVo.

    Netflix does a decent job but finding anything on it is awful. Their recommendations are like they are from my worst enemy trying to torture me with selections. The ability to find live TV type media on there would be a nightmare as even now, finding things on there is just awful.

    I keep an open mind, but so far, all the companies have made me hug my TiVo more and more.
     
    betts4 likes this.
  6. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    I'm gonna pick up a Tablo tomorrow.
    $99 + storage + $149 for guide.
    Will Probably also add a Fire Stick or Ruko for PBS Streaming for my wife.

    There are lots of other choices too that folks are really happy with.

    Amazon Recast (limited to 720p and closed system) but 1000's of reviews rated higher than Tivo.
    nVidia Shield TV + USB Tablo + Storage + Tablo Guide (very tempted, lots of moving parts)
    nVidia Shield TV + USB WinTV + Storage + Plex Guide

    I chose the Tablo because it can stream straight to the LG TV WebOs 3.0, inexpensive, expandable storage. Most negative reviews are from folks shocked they have to pay for Guide. The Guide is obviously not as rich as Tivo. But like I said, OTA is gradually going away for us, and others. It will also be wired Ethernet on Tablo and LG TV. So it should be able to stream at it's highest quality (10 mbs, 1080i).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  7. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Try this.

    My (Old 2001) Frig uses 550 kWh a year (or 1500 wh a day).
    Guess what, my old Series 3 Tivo uses 30 watts * 24 hr (or 720 wh a day). My Series 3 Tivo uses half a Frig !! That's why I want to get rid of it.

    All my "heat" appliances are gas. We also have tankless hot water and variable speed 98% efficient gas HVAC. All new (2 years old).

    My standby power for the house, when we are away is 166 watts (without Heat and Frig). That accounts for about 2/3 of our usage. Appliances (that don't electric heat or cool) don't use that much.

    That 166 watts (24/7) + frig (cycling) + HVAC Blower (cycling) accounts for ~95% of the bill. The rest is TV and Computers.

    My "standby" used to be 360 watts, saved about 200 watts in total. By doing lot's of simple things (smart strips, timers, motion sensors, upgrading to smarter electronics).
    That's $438 a year. I guess that's a waste time for you, but not for me.

    I expect the new Tablo to be smart and perhaps use less than 1 watt on standby (not recording), like most modern electronics do these days, when sleeping/idle/standby.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  8. Wil

    Wil Senile Member

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    There were three great Tivo's, history will reflect back: the prototype in the limited test market (because it was the first), the HR10-250 DirecTivo (because it was just the best DVR ever made, combination of the open device itself and DirecTV at its peak), and HD as the last great (open) Tivo. My modded Tivo HDs are among my most treasured possessions. I group the original series 3 with the HD, superior in some ways but edge to the HD because of the fully-activated mpeg4 capability.
     
    mswlogo likes this.
  9. tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Well-Known Member

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    I use trapped heat for passive heating, trapped cold for passive cooling, one lamp to light an immediate area. I know how to bill bust with minimal effort.
     
  10. jth tv

    jth tv Well-Known Member

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    Idle 9.2 Watts + USB drive

    How much power does Tablo consume?
    March 24, 2018
     
  11. tkrotchko

    tkrotchko New Member

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    In my opinion, the biggest threat to Tivo right now is that the major cable TV providers, Verizon, Comcast, AT&T, DISH, are dying a slow death. Verizon which has normally been solid, is now pulling shenanigans dropping pay channels specified in your contract without compensating people and the big discounts are going away. The profits are shrinking rapidly as the millenials and gen x-ers are cutting the cord, which is reducing channel selection and driving prices up for the customers who remain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  12. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Mar 17, 2009
    It’s currently using 6 watts idle with a USB drive.

    I have an nVidia Shield TV coming today. Folks are saying 3.5 watts idle.

    The Tablo is very good. It has an extremely slight judder on panning. I don’t watch sports. If I did it would be unacceptable. I’ll probably keep it if nVidia isn’t a lot batter.

    The Quality and flexibly is great Tablo.

    You can’t skip commercials when watching delayed. It does sone sort of post processing after it’s done recording.

    The phone app appears way ahead of the LG WebOS app. I had to change options on the phone that were not visible in the TV. But the effect still worked on the TV. Like enabling Dolby Surround. I’m concerned the LG App will be dropped. LG doing streaming it, was a bonus. Most other streaming boxes support Tablo App. But most are wireless.

    After a bit of research nVidia Sjield TV is supposed resolve the judder issue most of these other “streaming DVR” have.

    The nVidia will end up costing close to a Bolt + $99 lifetime transfer ( not available right now).

    $179 Shield + $69 WinTV + $119 Plex lifetime guide.
     
  13. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Dayton OH
    30 Watts for a TiVo? MEH!

    That's about 22 kWh per month, whereas our average monthly usage (with gas heat) is at least 900 kWh. So the Tivo is less than 3%. We could probably save more than that by just increasing our summer thermostat setting by one degree.

    How much electricity we use is not the issue. How much we pay for it might be. When we lived in the same size home in 1989, with less efficient furnace and AC, our average monthly bill for gas+electric was $89. Now it's something like 2 or 3 times that. It's grown a lot faster than inflation.
     
  14. ncbill

    ncbill Active Member

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    720Wh/day is ~$2.50/month or $30/year.

    Assuming the Tivo really is using 30W continuous (IIRC, my base Roamio isn't half that)

    OP could use a mechanical timer to cut on the Tivo 10 minutes prior to showtime, cutting power a few minutes after the show(s) end.
     
  15. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Mar 17, 2009
    I considered that.

    Two problems.

    Googling around folks say it will quickly corrupt.

    2nd I want my wife to be able watch any time. I can set up SmartThings and logictech to turn it on. I have lots of tricky macros now to make it seamless and low watts. But the Tivo takes forever and a day to boot.

    And it’s $65 / year for 30 watts.
    That assumes electricity doesn’t go up and it will.
    It’s not just the money.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  16. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Mar 17, 2009
    We use 400 kWh / mo
    That Tivo is 5% of our bill. That is ridiculous for a DVR today.

    You have large usage because you don’t care how much you use. So that’s your justification.

    Maybe if I get 5 more TV’s, a bigger Frig and turn the AC down then it won’t look so wasteful. That is basically the logic you are using.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  17. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Your usage is way below average. Consider this:
    From this U.S. Energy Information Administration source:
    How much electricity does an American home use? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    Obviously regional climate makes a big difference. Where are you located?

    You are wrong to infer that we don't care how much we use. The two largest items are AC and an electric clothes dryer. Our AC is SEER 14 and the thermostat is set as high as we can stand, and our neighborhood homeowners association does not allow drying clothes on clothes lines. Our stove is electric but I don't think that actually uses that much. Our refrigerator is rather small by today's standards (10 cubic feet). We use LED lighting and timers on many lights. We have only one large screen TV.

    At $0.12/kWh a 30 W load costs us just $32/year. Apparently your rates must be really high if 30 W costs you $65/yr.
     
  18. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Dayton OH
    Please clarify: By "gas HVAC" do you mean your AC uses gas rather than electricity (except for the blower)? That would explain most of your way-below-average electricity usage -- OR -- you live somewhere cold where very little AC is needed.

    If saving 200 watts reduces your bill by $438, that implies a cost of $0.25/kWh (!). Where do you live and what is your power company? (And have you considered moving? :p)
     
  19. stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    That basically leaves Hawaii, where electricity can run north of 30 cents/kWh. I'd become a miser too.

    Then again, if I lived in Hawaii I question how much of my time would be spent in front of the boob tube.
     
  20. mswlogo

    mswlogo Member

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    Mar 17, 2009
    Yes my electricity is $.25 /KWh
    MA National Grid. It’s that expensive in lots of places. Or even higher. Why should I move if my electric bill is $100/mo. Oh, so I can have more TV’s and run the AC lower?

    My heat water, dryer, is gas, my AC is electric. We set AC to 78 when it is sparingly used.

    My electricity usage is low because we don’t piss it away as the “average” consumer does.
     

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