Is It Possible To Use Two Series 3's With Only One Ethernet Connection?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by ADG, Sep 30, 2007.

  1. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    I'm going to add a second Series 3 in the same room as the first. The existing unit is connected to a broadband router with an Ethernet cable. The problem is that all outputs from the 8 port router are in use. Does each TiVO require its own connection (does each need a separate address) or can I split the Ethernet cable at the TiVO end and plug both into the same router port?

    Also, am I correct that Series 3 does not support the transfer of recorded programs from one unit to the other?

    Thanks in advance for your assistance.
     
  2. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Just buy a cheap 10/100 4 or 5 port ethernet switch - they are cheap these days: $20-30 at B&M stores and cheaper online. You can plug the switch into the router port your current S3 is using and then attach both S3s to the switch.
     
  3. Carsten

    Carsten New Member

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  4. DrWho453

    DrWho453 New Member

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    Yes, you are correct for now. However, TTG and MRV are supposed to be activated in November so at that time you should be able to transfer recorded programs from one unit to another or to a PC.
     
  5. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    Thanks very much for the responses :)

    So a switch will allow two units to share one router port?
     
  6. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    You can share CAT5 wiring between 2 100Mbps ports, but that doesn't help in OPs case since he is out of ports. Also if you ever get 1Gbps equipment it will need all 4 pairs to work at full speed.

    Adding an economical 4-port switch is the simplest solution for OP.
     
  7. Amnesia

    Amnesia The Question

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    Yes.
    Your router includes an 8-port switch. You can daisy-chain switches as much as you want.
     
  8. SNJpage1

    SNJpage1 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Another way to do it would be to buy a wireless bridge that would plug into the port that the tivo is now plugged into and then buy two wireless adapters for the tivos. That way each tivo would go wireless to the wireless bridge which would then connect the signals to the wired router. It would cost about $110 to do this.
     
  9. dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    What he said... :)
    (to the limit of 254 connected items which I believe is the limit on home routers DHCP scopes)

    My personal solution is a single RJ45 comes up to the entertainment center from my router, then I have a 10-port switch in the entertainment center for the devices that need network connectivity. (I think the switch cost about $29)

    Diane
     
  10. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    That's great. Thanks again guys. Guess I could have asked the networking experts at my site, but they don't know anything about TiVO's and I wasn't sure if there was any difference...... well, you know :) Anyway, I appreciate the fast and intelligent responses -- as always.

    BTW - I do have a fast wireless network in the house (Netgear 802T "g" WAP), but Netgear recommends that it not be left on 24 hours/day and I prefer the TiVO's have constant access.
     
  11. windracer

    windracer joined the 10k club

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    Interesting "recommendation" from Netgear. :confused:
     
  12. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    Yep :). I called them when I got the unit with a couple of questions and that was one of them. The CS rep made it clear that their recommendation was that it be unplugged when not in use.
     
  13. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    You have received a number of responses on this, most correct in whole or in part, however none have fully answered your question, and some have given what I consider less than optimal answers.

    First of all there is a big difference between a physical port and an IP address. It is quite possible for a single port on a single host to have multiple IP addresses assigned to it, but any given IP address must be assigned to no more than one host on any network. So the answer is, yes, your second TiVo will require both a second Ethernet port and a second IP address distinct from the first. As one poster mentioned, one can daisy-chain multiple switches off a single router port, and while there is no hard limit to the number of switches in cascade, I recommend you don't endlessly cascade one switch after another after another. A much better practice is to purchase a larger primary switch to handle more traffic and then hang at most one switch off each port of the primary switch. With 24 port switches being very economical these days, a single primary switch with a handful of subtended switches could easily take your LAN to more than 128 hosts, at which point I suggest you invest in a router which can handle multiple networks. I take it, however, you are still a long way from that end of the roadway. If you have used up all the ports on a 4 port broadband router, however, then it's not unlikely you may eventually fill up another 4 or more. Therefore unless money is really phenominally tight (unlikey for someone buying two S3s) I suggest you get a somewhat larger switch - at least a 12 or 16 port switch. With the advent of fairly inexpensive managed switches, you might even consider getting a managed switch. It's more money, but it may stand you in good stead in the long run. Of course, managed switches cost significantly more than unmanaged switches, but there are a number of decent managed 16 and 24 Port Gigabit switches available for between $200 and $500. If this is truly overkill for you, then I at least suggest a 16 port unmanaged Gigabit switch. At about $50, the extra investment is minimal, and it will stand you in good stead for a while to come.

    One of the posters suggested a wireless solution, but unless a wired solution is not practical, I suggest you stay away from wireless solutions. They generally provide much lower bandwidth at a much greater cost, are prone to various sometimes subtle and difficult problems, and security can be a bit of an issue - especially if the user is not familiar with wireless security protocols. Although not terribly difficult, if the user is not capable of handing a managed switch, then I don't recommend they try managing a wireless network, either.

    Personally, I'm using a TrendNet 24 port Gigbit Web-smart switch. It cost just a bit less than $400, and it's served me very well when troubleshooting LAN issues (or proving the LAN was not the issue). It currently has 18 ports in use. I can transfer files between workstations at better than 220Mbps.
     
  14. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    No, the TiVo (all versions) is Linux based, and uses the plain vanilla networking kernel. It's IP, plain and simple, with no significant enhancements or exceptions at the networking layer or below. The Series I was designed specifically for dial-up networking, so there were some interesting (and odd) optimizations for low bandwidth connections at the TCP player, but those pretty much seem to have evaporated with the Series II and above.
     
  15. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    That's just weird. I haven't always had the best luck with Netgear equipment, and I don't generally offer it as a recommendation.
     
  16. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    I have an 8 port router that is maxed out (one output is obviously to the WAP and another to the Series 3). I understand what you are saying, but am not sure if your conclusion is that an ethernet switch will or will not work for my purpose. It will be used ONLY to connect the two S3's to the broadband network. Everything else will have its own port. Can I use an inexpensive switch for this purpose? Thanks.
     
  17. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    Get an inexpensive 4-port switch. Connect your existing cable to the switch. Connect 2 new cables from the remaining ports to the 2 S3s. You'll have 1 extra port available for another device.

    If you have your S3s configured for DHCP, everything will just work. If static IP, just make sure you don't have conflicting IP addresses.

    All the switches sold today should adjust MDI/MDI-X automatically so you don't have to worry about crossover cables or MDI/MDI-X pushbutton or dip switches.
     
  18. ADG

    ADG Allan

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    Thanks. Sometimes too much information is too much information ;). Yes, my ISP is DHCP not static. I don't even remember having to set up my S3 for DHCP - just plugged in the Ethernet cable and it immediately recognized it was on a network.
     
  19. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

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    San...
    Oh, surely enough, you did say an 8 port. After reading down thrugh the thread I had it in my mind you had said a 4 port. This makes the 16 or 24 port switch even more desirable.

    It will, but I don't recommend the topology you are suggesting. For one thing, the 16 or 24 port switch will almost certainly have a switch fabric with a greater throughput than the 8 port switch built in to your router. Secondly, it's probably unlikely your router has a Gigabit switch built in. With a Gig switch, you can outfit your workstations with Gigabit NIC cards, and your network can run much faster. Sharing a port bottlenecks the Ethernet feeds out of your Series III units and significantly increases the network latency between the S3s and the rest of the network. Since the broadband connection is probably only capable of about 5 or 6 Mbps, an extra millisecond or so there is not too likely to cause a networking issue, but on a network whose latency miught otherwise be 1 ms or less and whose throughput can be far greater than 100Mbps, it makes a difference. The extra cost for a 16 port unmanaged Gig switch is only about $30, or less. (CompUSA has some 16 port Gig switches for $52.) The 16 port Gig switch probably has a maximum throughput of greater than 10Gbps. Your 8 port router may have a throughput of only 300 or 400 Mbps, or at most 800Mbps. That's more than a factor of ten.

    Again, yes, but I don't recommend it. It's a better practice to put all your high speed connections on a single network segment, if you can. A topology which results in little or no noticeable congestion today may suffer a great deal more congestion a year or two down the line. Please believe me, it's worth another $30.
     
  20. CharlesH

    CharlesH Member

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    Translation: With Ethernet cables, the device at one end of one wire is transmitting data to the device at the other end, and is receiving data from the other device on another wire. The problem with switches is that it has to sort out which wire is which for the device at the other end of the cable.Typically, "routers" are wired one way, devices like computers (and TiVos) the other, but you can plug both into the switch. In the "old days", you had to manually tell the switch what was on the other end of the cable, or plug the cable from the "router" into a specially labelled "crossover" port. The X in MID-X is "crossover", meaning that Transmit and Receive wires have been reversed on that port. Otherwise, both devices are trying to send on the same wire, and both listen on another wire, which doesn't work too well. Newer devices sort out what kind of electrical signals are on the wire to determine what is expected at the other end.
     

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