Is anything next after Premier ?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by paul_w_downing, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. paul_w_downing

    paul_w_downing Member

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    biscuit,

    The commercials don't bug me because presently I run everything through the AV IN on my S2. So I hit pause or record, grab a snack, and then skip the commercials. This is one reason I don't want to give up my S2 for a Premier. I also agree with you though, and I think it is crazy that Hulu Plus still has commercials. But on the other hand so does cable and Sat, and those cost money, so whatever....
     
  2. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Well with Hulu/Hulu+ you can skip them - just leave the room or change to another input device. :D

    However whatever is streaming Hulu/Hulu+ is going to have to play through the commercials :(
     
  3. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

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    Hulu Plus is $7.99 a month.
     
  4. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    ...and you can skip anything you want to record on those systems. I get what you're saying, but don't agree that streaming everything is the holy grail.
     
  5. ShoutingMan

    ShoutingMan Member

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    No. I'm talking with a friend who's building multi-tuner cablecard-compatible HTPCs for about $500, with no subscription costs. Factor in $299 lifetime service with a $299 Tivo and HTPCs are comparable, even cheaper than Tivos. So what you're asking for isn't wildly unreasonable.

    My TivoHDs are a couple years old now, and I'd like to step up to something more sophisticated. When I tally the cost of buying two new Tivos, and monthly costs for both, used over three years, I can spend about $1300 on an HTPC and 2nd-room streaming box to break even. I might even get DVD / Blu-ray ripping and playback with that, a benefit my Tivo doesn't have.

    The trade off is a custom system requiring significant investment to buy and build, versus the trivial retail experience of a Tivo. But I see Tivo losing its edge against HTPCs, especially now that I can build three or four-tuner HTPCs.

    I'm starting to weigh my options for later this year or next.
     
  6. ShoutingMan

    ShoutingMan Member

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    No. I'm talking with a friend who's building multi-tuner cablecard-compatible HTPCs for about $500, with no subscription costs. Factor in $299 lifetime service with a $299 Tivo and HTPCs are comparable, even cheaper than Tivos. So what you're asking for isn't wildly unreasonable.

    My TivoHDs are a couple years old now, and I'd like to step up to something more sophisticated. When I tally the cost of buying two new Tivos, and monthly costs for both, used over three years, I can spend about $1300 on an HTPC and 2nd-room streaming box to break even. I might even get DVD / Blu-ray ripping and playback with that, a benefit my Tivo doesn't have.

    The trade off is a custom system requiring significant investment to buy and build, versus the trivial retail experience of a Tivo. But I see Tivo losing its edge against HTPCs, especially now that I can build three or four-tuner HTPCs.

    I'm starting to weigh my options for later this year or next.
     
  7. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I am going to just call Bull Sh** on this. Right now the only cable card tuner you can buy for a PC costs $399 and it requires Win 7 so just the operating system and cable card tuner will cost more than the $500 you quated. Yes it will have 4 tuners not 2 but by the time you get done you will have well over $1000 into it and could easliy have substantially more. Plus you had to build it.

    If you look at a prebuilt HTPC that has OTA and cable card support you are talking $2-3000. That is the cost you would compare to the cost of 2 Tivos with lifetime that will range from low of $960 with upgrade offers to $1300 with no upgrade offers.

    Thanks
     
  8. ShoutingMan

    ShoutingMan Member

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    I'm only working from info from a friend on what's possible. I may have misunderstand his pricing and features at the $500 level.


    I got an example:
    AMD Zacate boards (CPU+Board) ($120)
    Nice M-itx case, say $70 (Nmedia)
    2TB HDD: $69
    4G RAM: $39
    Bluray Reader: $49
    Remote: $29
    Win7 HP: $99

    Totals:
    $475 without a cable card tuner
    $724 with a 3-tuner Cable-card compatible Silicon Dust h'ware
    $874 with 4-tuner Ceton.
    $1074 with Ceton & Xbox 360 to stream to a second location
    No monthly subscription cost.

    For a four-tuner system with Tivo (which I need) is currently:
    $2 x $100 + ($20 + $10) / mo x 36 mo (my situation) = $1280.

    Total cost for the cheapest four-tuner system with two-room usage, including Blu-ray capability, is $200 less than a two-Premiere system for three years. And in my case: this summer I'll have paid about $1200 for two TivoHDs for 3 yrs.

    Maybe you build a more expensive HTPC. Maybe you get better deals on the Tivos or get some savings with lifetime (I don't buy it). Yes, you have to build a custom HTPC. Maybe the software is not quite as good (but I'm not reading good things about the Premiere's software.)


    My wife and I love our pair of TivoHDs. But when I look at upgrading to a more sophisticated system in the next year, and I read reviews of the Tivo Premieres...cost and quality of Tivo now is enough to get to me seriously consider an HTPC as a cost effective alternative.
     
  9. image1

    image1 New Member

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    agreed, I would just like the existing services to function properly and consistently.
     
  10. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I have no issues with HTPCs I built one a few months ago intended for streaming and video/music storage only (no tuners not being used for a DVR). The prices you quoted are too low for something that works well. I think you can do it for $1000 with the 4 tuner cable card tuner if you are very careful and spend a few weeks shopping deals. The silicon dust tuner isn't available yet but will lower the cost when it does become available.

    If you have a TiVo now you (all everyone else who owns a TiVo) have upgrade offers that allow you to purchase a Premiere with lifetime for either $469 or $500. So yes you can buy 2 Premieres with lifetime for less then you can build an entry level HTPC that has cable card support.

    There are many ++s to the HTPC and if you spend a little more on it say $1200-$1500 the ++s increase. It will however never be as easy to use as a TiVo and you did have to build it. I can assure you many things can go wrong while building a PC that can increase the cost significantly. I built 2 and rebuilt (upgrade parts) 2 more PCs over last winter. I ended up with one bad part that cost me days and money to figure out which part it was and is actually why I built 2 new PCs instead of 1.

    For most people the only way to compare the cost of a TiVo to the cost of a HTPC is to look at the cost of buying a pre-built one that includes support and a warranty. At that point you have moved to the $2-3000 range to start.

    Thanks,
     
  11. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Exactly, good post. The cost of an HTPC w/extender setup is roughly the same as two Tivos w/lifetime, so you have to look at what you need with each setup - there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

    I have both setups in my house and by far prefer the ease of use with Tivo, mostly because I don't care for the extenders on the HTPC setup (Xbox and Linksys DMA2100). Right now I'm only using the HTPC for recording overflow backup when I run out of Tivo tuners (which doesn't happen often).
     
  12. snedecor

    snedecor Member

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    I was basically forced from TiVo to HTPC, because:

    1) I have satellite service (monopoly cable fiefdom in my town sucks).
    2) I wanted HD (primarily OTA), and multiple tuners

    My series 2 can't do HD, or have multiple tuners. The HD or Premiere won't work with satellite.

    HTPC works for me, but it's not TiVo. It requires some fiddling, it's got some warts, but for now, it's the only game in town.

    Now, with the Dish/TiVo settlement just announced, maybe it will result in a DishTiVo, or spur the DirecTiVo to finish their work. One can only hope...
     
  13. bmgoodman

    bmgoodman Member

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    Sorry, but I can no longer agree with you on this. I don't want Tivo, who now seems unable to finish the Premiere, to add any more widgets, gadgets, or geegaws to yet another fancy new piece of hardware.

    Inventing the DVR was only the beginning. I never realized this slogan meant they can no longer FINISH ANYTHING.
     
  14. wp746911

    wp746911 New Member

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    OP-
    As mentioned earlier there are some rumors of tivo considering 4 tuner models/extenders but who knows...

    It seems like you've mentioned in your posts that HD isn't that much better than SD (something to that effect)- I'm dumbfounded. Either you have never seen HD or your have vision problems.

    Streaming is good for what it is, but IF you have a nice HD tv with speaker setup it's just not as good as blu-ray. Also I've found some network shows that my wife and I watch aren't available for streaming for a while. Sure streaming will eventually rule the world, but it's gonna be several several years before the streaming world is in the same ballpark as cable/satellite TV so you need a plan until that time.

    A viable option (for my family) is to have some streaming (netflix maybe) and then some broadcast (either OTA for free- or if that is unreliable/undoable in your location, pay $13 or whatever to get basic basic cable which will get you the main networks). I don't have much experience with hulu plus so I'm not sure how that works into the mix. The tivo premiere, for all its shortcomings, is still a reliable HD dual tuner box.

    HTPC crowd- certainly tempting for me and maybe if I was a batchelor I would get it, but the wife would kill me. And my 6 year old can run my tivo. HTPC are powerful and cool and great, and cost competitive, but I don't want to have to explain them to my family, daily.
     
  15. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    No ability to record Dish/Direct HD in HD is a problem for TiVo. It can be partially solved with an HTPC at a fairly high cost. But honestly you might just as well take your Sat providers DVR.

    The best hope for TiVo and anyone who pays for cable or Satellite is that the FCC replaces cable cards with something that actually works the way it should and includes the Satellite providers. There is hope but I am still betting the cable and Satellite providers pay off enough politicians and kill it.

    Thanks,
     
  16. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Or get a HArmony remote. One button press and my HDMI switch for my TiVos turns on and goes to the right input, my Tv turns on and goes to the right input, My Algolith HDMI Flea turns on and goes to the right input, my DVDO DUO turns on and selects the right input and my receiver turns on and goes to the right input.

    All with a button press of an icon labeled, left TiVo, bottom right TiVo or top right TiVo.
     
  17. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I am amused at all these type statements. So lets see because you don't like the way the UI looks or works, so you are going to decide it isn't "Finished" and TiVo needs to change it the way you want them to.

    Well everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions and certainly should provide TiVo with feed back on how they think the UI could be improved. However I personally hope TiVo is never "Finished" with their UI.

    The fact is TiVo's UI is not and likely will never be done until they abandon software updates for a particular platform. On going and continued updating of the UI either by fixing bugs, adding features, or improving functionality has always been and continues to be TiVos operating model.

    Now if people want to be upset about the pace that TiVo is currently improving their UI, I would be right there with you.

    Thanks,
     
  18. shady

    shady Previously European TCF Club

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    Morgan...
    Just because you think a $500 700 Watt AV Receiver is BIG, it doesn't mean everyone else thinks that.

    Why should I have to downgrade my home theater to a cheap (in my opinion) receiver in order to get the latest,greatest TiVo experience?

    Let Denon and Yamaha build the best mid-range receivers.
    Let Samsung build the best TVs
    Let TiVo build the best DVR and online content aggregator.

    It's all about focus.
     
  19. jmccorm

    jmccorm Special Forum Guest

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    The question was: Is anything next after Premier?
    I would only have given a thumbs up to one of two replies:

    The first one is what you said, "finish the Premier".
    The second one would have been "bankruptcy".

    Even though I shelled out a good chunk of change for the Premier, today, I wouldn't mind so much if TiVo suddenly vanished overnight.
     
  20. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Given that they just got $500 million from Dish I doubt they are going bankrupt any time soon.

    I think we all know there is plenty of room to improve the Premiere's software without needing a hardware update. So in the whats next category I do not see why the hardware in the Premiere would need to be upgraded until cable cards are replaced. If they intend on building a whole house 4 tuner model I would assume it would be a premium model above the Premiere not a replacement model.

    Regarding not caring if TiVo vanished - if your TiVo really works so poorly that you would rather trash it than continue to use - I would vote it is defective. If you are just grumpy because it doesn't work the way you think it should that is your business and you have plenty of company. My TiVos work just fine and I would prefer to continue getting software updates and guide data for many many many years.

    Thanks,
     

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