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Installation Advice

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by KB4MTO, Jul 17, 2018.

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  1. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    Hello Everyone. I am a new Tivo user. I just got the Roamio OTA 1TB and I love it. The Tivo bridge arrived last night, and my Mini's and POE filter are due tomorrow. I am planning my installation and I have a few questions.

    I currently have Spectrum Digital HD cable and I am getting rid of it. All I will have is Spectrum Internet. Currently my Tivo Roamio is downstairs connected to my home theater. There is a cable drop at that location, but it is not being used. The Roamio is connected to my network via WiFi - 802.11n.

    My Internet location is upstairs. That is where the router and WiFi are located. I also have 2 bedrooms upstairs that I am adding Tivo Mini's in. I have attached a drawing of my projected install to help.

    My first question; what is the purpose of the POE filter, and where in my installation should I install it? Some drawings show it on the ISP side at the front end, and others show it at the OTA antenna.

    Second, will the WiFi be good enough for the Roamio, or should I add another bridge and add it to the moca network?

    And finally, does my design look correct for the Tivo network to work correctly? If not, what suggestions do you have?

    Thanks for the help, I am really excited to get this system up and running and to ditch a $200.00 a month cable bill.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    Welcome.

    I can only answer that one. No, the internal wireless on a OTA Roamio can not support a Mini. It would be ok for service connections. Add the bridge.

    Add your location in your profile. There may be a TiVo user nearby.
     
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  3. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

    37
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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    Thanks for the fast reply. That's what I was thinking. It does good for streaming Netflix and Prime, but I didn't think it would handle streaming to the mini.

    --Hank
     
  4. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    Since you will have coax at the Roamio, MoCA is best. My Mini and Roamio units all use wireless bridges. Your router would probably not work in that environment.
     
  5. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

    37
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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    Wouldn't I still need to install a bridge on my Ethernet switch at the router so I can stream Netflix, Hulu, etc.?
     
  6. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra in the other Alabama TCF Club

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    Ashland, PA...
    Yes. I was referring to the wireless ability of your router. You might put a new one on your Black Friday wish list.

    BTW, my signature has a link to a post with abbreviations. Also, the PoE filter is used to contain your MoCA network and keep the signals from being broadcast to your neighbors or to your modem. Some cable modems have a built-in filter.
     
  7. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

    37
    5
    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    Perfect, thanks. So in my setup, the PoE filter should probably be placed in front of the first splitter where Spectrum comes in.

    Your abbreviation list is nice. I will spend time there learning all of this stuff.

    --Hank
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Diagram looks great, except...
    • Yes, you need the "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the input of that first 2-way splitter encountered by the incoming Spectrum cable signal, to keep your MoCA signals from passing out onto the Spectrum premise (and possibly into your neighbors' homes). The filter has to go on this splitter (and not the 4-way) because you need the MoCA signals to pass through this splitter, between the Roamio location and the main MoCA adapter and Minis.

    • Your antenna will be directly connected to the Roamio OTA DVR and so no MoCA signals will be present on that coax line -- and so no "PoE" MoCA filter would be needed to secure MoCA signals from reaching the antenna.

    • Finally, yes, you do need a MoCA adapter connected at the router (and to your coax), just as you've drawn, to establish the MoCA network on your coax lines -- bridging between the coax/MoCA clients and the router's Ethernet LAN.

      However, you'll also need a MoCA adapter installed at the Roamio location, attached to that connected but unused coax drop, to provide the Roamio with a wired network connection. The Roamio will be configured as an Ethernet client, connected either directly to the MoCA adapter's Ethernet port or to a network switch that is wired to the MoCA adapter, if you have multiple Ethernet-capable devices at the Roamio location that would also benefit from a wired network connection.

    "PoE" MoCA filter, first; then main bridging MoCA adapter; then the MoCA adapter for the Roamio location.
     
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  9. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    The Arris DG 1670 is a gateway, cable modem router combo, which has MoCA builtin, but it may or may not be able to be enabled by your ISP, you would want to first check the settings or call and ask the ISP.
    If that MoCA source can be used, then you could remove the current Tivo MoCA adapter and replace it to that one leg of the first 2 way that appears to go nowhere, then run an Ethernet cable from it to the Roamio OTA. With the MoCA filter on the input of the first 2 way, you should be good to go.
    If the gateway's MoCA is not usable, you will need a second MoCA adapter.
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Just to be clear, any modems with a built-in MoCA filter (aka MoCA "immunity" filter, "protective" MoCA filter, "prophylactic" MoCA filter) are only protecting themselves against MoCA signals -- similar to how some Tuning Adapters require a MoCA filter on their coax input to prevent TA instability when MoCA signals are present.

    A modem having a built-in MoCA filter, or a separate MoCA filter installed on the modem's coax input if needed, is a distinct function from the "PoE" MoCA filter required for the cable or antenna signal Point-of-Entry when MoCA signals aare present on the associated coax plant. (more of the same here)
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
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  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Good catch. (data sheet)

    But, yeah, if it's leased, then the MoCA bridging feature likely can't be enabled as Spectrum, from what I've heard, doesn't support doing so. I don't know about if the gateway is owned. It's worth checking to save the money.

    The "PoE" MoCA filter would still be needed, as is the MoCA adapter at the Roamio; the gateway handling the MoCA bridging would just eliminate the need for a separate MoCA adapter at the router location.


    p.s. A gateway with built-in MoCA bridging is an entirely different animal from a cable modem with a built-in MoCA immunity filter. However, if you find that you cannot leverage the built-in MoCA bridging of your gateway, you can optionally install a MoCA filter on its coax input to prevent the gateway from interfering with your standalone MoCA network if the gateway's MoCA feature is ever accidentally enabled. (In this case, you'd be insuring your MoCA network against potential harm from the gateway.)
     
  12. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

    37
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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida

    Perfect, thanks. I was confused as to why some people put PoE filters on their antennas; your explanation answers that. So I will add the filter to the front of the 2-way splitter, then the MoCA adapter at the router, and order another MoCA adapter for the Roamio.

    Thanks for the explanations!

    --Hank
     
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  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yes, but not just "in front of" but directly on the input of that initial 2-way splitter, to maximize the performance benefit of the "PoE" MoCA filter. (more info here)
     
  14. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    This is actually a mistake on my print. The Arris is in bridge mode, passing the public IP address to my firewall, a Ubiquiti USG Pro 4. Behind the firewall is the switch. So I believe the Ethernet Tivo bridge would go to my switch in this scenario?

    --Hank
     
  15. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

    37
    5
    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    I'm sorry, that's what I meant by in front of. I will install the filter between Spectrum's coax and the input of that 2-way splitter.

    Thanks for the clarification, I know the details matter :)

    --Hank
     
  16. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    No caffeine yet today and maybe I'm convoluting topics, but: can't a Roamio OTA indeed work with a Mini over wireless, assuming a good, robust home wireless network set-up? A big YMMV area but which indeed has worked for some users, others not (likewise, a Powerline adapter system), albeit not "supported" by TiVo? Of course, if there is Ethernet or coaxial cable for MoCA in the affected areas, those likely are preferable for the consistency/quality/dependability of the setup and signal.
     
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  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    No "likely" about it.

    You can do a search of @JoeKustra's posts and the history will be peppered with posts citing his success in networking TiVos via wireless, for streaming, but with the caveat that the 4-tuner Roamio's built-in wireless has proven insufficient to support TiVo streaming.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yeah, once in bridge mode, the Arris' MoCA bridging capability is unavailable, along with all the other router/firewall/wireless features.

    So, yes, you'd still need the MoCA adapter at the router location, and its Ethernet port just needs a connection to your LAN, whether direct to a LAN port on your router or to a connected Ethernet switch.
     
  19. KB4MTO

    KB4MTO Member

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    Jul 9, 2018
    Central Florida
    That's what I thought. In bridge mode, it's pretty much a media convertor with no configuration.

    I would like the wireless to work with the Roamio because we have the coax running across the floor in a rubber protective sleeve to the credenza (there isn't a way to run the coax to the other side in my house). I have a solid wireless signal in the house, using the Ubiquiti hi-power long-range access points. But if the weakness is in the Roamio, there is nothing I can do about that. I will try it and see what happens, and if it doesn't work well I will add the bridge to the Roamio.
     
  20. Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting seeing a poll of the equipment used by those who successfully have maintained a TiVo box-Mini wireless setup, specifically, with regard to which TiVo boxes. I just generally remember people reporting that they have been able to do it, with no issue (plus, absolutely, others reporting that they were not able to do it, or that the system worked fine initially and later crapped out)--but I don't recall the specific TiVo boxes (although I recall Joe having reported his having experienced a weaker wireless capability with one or more TiVo box models).

    The only reason I used the term "likely" earlier was my hesitancy about categorical statements, especially where people have reported workable systems for them.

    Having said that, if I had the easy option for Ethernet or MoCA, I certainly would go there.
     

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