In the clear QAM and custom lineup

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by frantishak, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. Dec 7, 2006 #1 of 59
    frantishak

    frantishak New Member

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    Dec 7, 2006

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    I found out the hard way that TIVO Series 3 does not support the guide data for the in-the-clear QAM HD rebroadcast channels. This is a big deal for me as 90% of stuff I am watching is on these channels, and w/o channel guide TIVO is nothing more than just a fancy VCR.

    So, my question is: Did anyone try going the custom channel lineup way to work around this issue? If they can create a custom lineup for large apartment complexes why can't they create a custom lineup for in-the-clear HD QAM users in specific area? I live in San Francisco, and my layout of QAM channels did not change for at least last 4 month. I would argue that there are probably more TIVO users that share my lineup, then TIVO users of any of the big apartment complexes around here.

    If anyone has experience with that, could you please share. What kind of info do I need to provide to TIVO to create a custom lineup? How long it takes? How willing are they to work w/ end user (as oppose to large apartment complex management)? Perhaps I need to find 10 other people that share my lineup to make a case with them?

    Any help is really appreciated.

    Thanks,

    -- Matt
     
  2. Dec 7, 2006 #2 of 59
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
  3. Dec 7, 2006 #3 of 59
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    Philadelphia...
    My submission to TiVo with all the info was pretty much rejected. But maybe if enough people start making submissions, they'll take notice?

    I'm not sure if that's a worthwhile pursuit, compared to wasting the time of the hard working folks on the other end of that submission form...
     
  4. Dec 7, 2006 #4 of 59
    samual.icky

    samual.icky New Member

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    Sep 18, 2006
    Question... how does one record in the clear QAM stations... well how does one tune in for that matter?
     
  5. Dec 7, 2006 #5 of 59
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

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    Feb 8, 2006
    Philadelphia...

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    If you know what the channels are (and even a Channel Scan will pick them up) you can just tune to them.

    Just above and to the right of the numeric keypad is the skip ahead button. When entering the QAM channel, this button doubles as a hyphen or decimal -- it's labeled (-)
    So you'd press 26 (-) 1 to get channel 26.1

    Set up a manual recording on that channel at the desired time(s) and you'll be all set.

    P.S. Send TiVo a Feature Request http://research.tivo.com/suggestions for the ability to map QAM channels
     
  6. Dec 7, 2006 #6 of 59
    vstone

    vstone Active Member

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    May 11, 2002
    Martinsville...
    Channel scan only picked up 16 channel 0's for me.
     
  7. jgarman

    jgarman New Member

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    Dec 15, 2006
    Just purchased a Series 3 to work with my new 32" lcd -- first foray into HDTV but a long-time TiVo customer. I was successfully watching HD broadcasts through the LCD TV's QAM tuner, so I figured my new Series3 would be able to do the same... however I can't get it to pick up any of the HD channels either. What can I do or try (other than returning this stupid thing?) I've tried running channel scan several times to no avail-- my TV picks up the HD channels just fine, but the QAM tuner in the TiVo seems to suck. Any ideas?? I'd really prefer not to have to shell out the cash for a digital service when all I want is the broadcast channels anyway...
     
  8. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Apr 9, 2001
    sunnyvale
    You've read the other threads, right?

    You will need the CableCards to be able to 'map' the digital channels to what the Tivo expects. You MAY be able to get those without paying for digital cable, but you'll have to pay a few bucks for them.

    I'd also suggest calling Tivo and saying that this is a feature you want -- being able to use the in-the-clear QAM channels without having to pay for cablecards.

    But from other threads (I don't own a S3 yet), you should still be able to tune in the channels, you just can't record them (except via manual recordings). Can you get to them by typing in the channel #s?
     
  9. jgarman

    jgarman New Member

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    Dec 15, 2006
    I've read the other threads ... I'm not interested in getting CableCards if I don't have to-- I'm in NoVa and they will wrap you over a barrel for everything. Are you implying that you can't even tune into QAM channels without a cablecard? I have read this thread... and tried using the channel scan to "find" the QAM channels but no joy. None of the digital HD channels (that I can receive just fine with my TV's QAM tuner!) show up in TiVo's scan.

    I have tried just changing the channel during live TV-- but then TiVo attempts to find the channel via the (unconnected) antenna and NOT the cable port! How can I tell it that the channel REALLY DOES exist????

    -- at my wits' end...
     
  10. TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

    1,035
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    Feb 8, 2006
    Philadelphia...
    You can tune in to QAM channels manually. You can add them to your channel list so you can "surf" to them via Chan Up and Chan Down. You will not receive Guide information for them, nor will TiVo know what channel it's supposed to be.

    Try typing the channel number in manually 128.3 (the dot button is just above the 3 on the keypad).

    If it still doesn't work....
    - Make sure you've got 8.0.1c the update that started rolling out last week (force an update to TiVo and you should get it)
    - Restart
    - Make sure you're plugged into the Cable and not Antenna port
    - Run Guided Setup again
     
  11. dlcrow

    dlcrow New Member

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Round Rock, TX
    I just got my second S3 and installed it last night. I have CableCARDs in the first one, so I was not affected by this issue.

    The clear QAM stations for my cable system (Time Warner Round Rock,TX) are in the cable lineup that TiVo gets (even for my S2's). After a channel scan, the S3 found the clear QAM channels and their mapped channel numbers. Since they matched the numbers in my channel lineup, I have guide data for my clear QAM stations!

    I was extremely pleasantly surprised.
     
  12. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Don't see how that's possible. Tivo cable channel lineup do not have any sub-channels such as 7-1, so there is no guide data for cbl 7-1. There would be OTA 7-1 but then that would be for antenna input only not cable. So don't see how this could possibly work - from everything I've seen all clear QAM cable channels always come out with "Regular Schedule" for guide listings when not using cablecards. Can you please elaborate with examples exactly how it's working for you?
     
  13. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    The cable company is in complete control of what (virtual) channels numbers the clear QAM channels show up as. Part of the information broadcast along with the video is the virtual channel numbers. If you see your clear QAM stations as 7-1, that means the cable company is assigning it the same virtual channel number as you'd see off-air. If you see 89-1, then they're most likely not assigning it a virtual channel number, and the 89 is the frequency index of the channel. But, nothing prevents the cable company from assigning the same clear QAM channel number (say 707) as they use in in their cablecard/digital box lineup.

    So, everyone who's complaining about Tivo not supporting custom lineups should really start complaining at their cable company to assign the clear QAM channels to the same channel number as their digital lineups.
     
  14. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    True, but most clear QAM channels are re-broadcasts of the original OTA channel with PSIP information and hence usually map to the OTA channel #. For a cable company to map to their own cable channels they have to fabricate there own PSIP information which is expensive and doesn't encourage "savvy" customers to rent their box for channel mapping, so I don't see the incentive for them to do it. For my cable company (Cox, Orange County) only a couple of HD local re-broadcasts even preserve the OTA PSIP. The others have the PSIP stripped and none of the SD digital simulcast channels in the clear have any PSIP information at all. I've examined several captures with TSReaderLite to confirm all this.
     
  15. Roderigo

    Roderigo New Member

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    Mar 11, 2002
    Brookdale, CA
    I'm aree with you, but your original question didn't sound like you understood all of this. The cable company can technically make their clear QAM lineup match their cablecard lineup, but in general they choose not to. Dlcrow's cable company, however is doing it. The cable company could also give Tribune their clear QAM lineups, but they likewise have chosen to not do that.
     
  16. jgarman

    jgarman New Member

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    Dec 15, 2006
    Thanks TydalForce! The update to 8.0.1c worked like a charm! I sent in the channel lineup change to TiVo -- maybe they'll update it since my cable provider does provide the correct PSIP information to map the channels to the same channels used by the OTA broadcasts.
     
  17. Stevesreed

    Stevesreed Member

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    Jun 24, 2002
    I subimitted a line change request as well. Hopefully they start adding clearQAM's that are properly mapped.

    TW in SD recently started passing the PSIP data though, so cbl 6-1 is the same as ant 6-1, etc for all the HD locals. I get most OTA fine, except one channel, so it would really be nice to be able to record show with data on that one channel.

    It's pretty frustrating to have cbl 6-1 in the channel line up right next to ant 6-1 and not be able to schedule recordings on it (except manually, but that's not the whole point of Tivo)
     
  18. dlcrow

    dlcrow New Member

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Round Rock, TX
    Knowing that TWC Austin is inserting information into the stream to map the channels to their digital lineup is interesting. I bet it also explains why all of the other useful information such as program name and ratings is gone when viewing over cable when compared to OTA.

    I was very pleasantly surprised that it worked after reading the reports here. It's all about the channels being in my channel lineup as when I got my first S3 prior to getting the CableCARD, the stations were not in the channel lineup and I was in the same situation as everyone here (channel scan would find them, I could tune them manually, but there was not associated guide data, so the Tivo functions that depend on that did not work).

    Maybe this makes up for TWC moving more channels to SDV in January. On second thought, it doesn't.
     
  19. CJLevinsk22

    CJLevinsk22 Member

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    Aug 21, 2004
    So guys--any word on TiVo addressing this in a future update?

    Until they do, I can't make the jump on the Series3 as all my OTA is unencypted.
     
  20. Saxion

    Saxion Substantive Member

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    Sep 17, 2006
    San Diego
    Well, we know there is no fix for this in the latest 8.3 firmware.

    You are not alone in wanting this fixed...there are a large number of people waiting for this. It will be very big news if it happens. Since people are starting to poke around the Series 3 OS and do some reverse engineering (i.e. enabling the eSATA port), maybe someone will stumble upon a backdoor for this... :) (we can hope, can't we?!?)
     

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