Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by JACKASTOR, Oct 31, 2017.

Bring Back Live Guide Option in Hydra!!

  1. Bring it back, and make it an Optional Choice please.

    77.5%
  2. Prefere the Grid Guide To all Else.

    20.6%
  3. Undecided, I have trouble knowing whats good or not.

    1.9%
  1. Jan 2, 2018 #241 of 527
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    It's not just the change. It's the fact that the new UI is less usable. It looks fine. And I can get use to using the back button and select rather then right/left. But some of the screens are just less usable then their counterparts in the old UI. It's like they got a new toy (the thumbnail carousel) and just abused it, most of the time to the detriment of usability. There are also the UI inconsistencies I mentioned above which make using the UI annoying.

    I don't mind change. In fact I quite like the look of the new UI. But after having it for a while I can't stand actually using it.
     
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  2. Jan 2, 2018 #242 of 527
    stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    There is a very, VERY huge difference between "I don't like this because it is different" and "I don't like this because major functionality has been lost".
     
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  3. Jan 2, 2018 #243 of 527
    sangs

    sangs Active Member

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    Agreed, but this is a fluid situation. It's not as if they're done tweaking or updating Hydra. Give it time.
     
  4. Jan 2, 2018 #244 of 527
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Your amusing, I hate to break it to you but "today's consumers" are anyone who buys stuff, which is all of us - also given we are talking about data on screens we all prefer visuals over having nothing on the screen. If someone prefers graphics over text for information delivery in a menu is another matter and certainly user specific, but my guess is most people like both just to varying degrees.

    Regarding liking or not liking change my guess is that for most people it depends on if the change is positive or negative. When it comes to a UI my concern is usability, with Hydra the question is fairly simple does it improve my TiVo's usability or not. I tried it on a unit without a voice remote and the answer was simple Hydra decreased usability for me. I do not think change that makes a companies product less enjoyable and harder to use is a good idea, that said with voice support and future updates TiVo may make Hydra into something that is positive change, but only time will tell.
     
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  5. Jan 2, 2018 #245 of 527
    sangs

    sangs Active Member

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    *You're*

    I guess I meant the young folks (of which I am not, so we're clear), as they're the ones driving the bus of media consumption these days. And they like the visuals. They aren't going to care about a Live Guide missing, because - as I do - they'll just use the app for that function, as it exists perfectly there.
     
  6. Jan 2, 2018 #246 of 527
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    Ted,

    Respectfully, Tivo should have listened from the very beginning. Instead they married themselves to Hydra's design and pushed it all the way through with the questionable results we have now. This is presumably to get something/anything out on schedule because fixing it is going to take another year at least.

    This destroys the whole mythology of how Tivo ardently usertests their stuff.

    The other thing that bugs me in the back button. I'm fine pressing a different button other than Left, but the Back button is straight up hard to find and I fat finger it constantly if I don't look first. To properly reflect its new importance, the Back button on Vox remotes should have been large and easy to find, not among the smallest buttons on the remote.

    In any event, how about transfers? Still AWOL after February I'm guessing?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  7. Jan 2, 2018 #247 of 527
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Ya except "young folks" who don't sub to cable or bother with OTA, don't buy DVRs. TiVo has to target the people who sub to a QAM cable provider and/or want to record OTA broadcasts, neither of which are the "hip" crowd or whatever the current correct term is. While I think having voice is likely a very good idea, the UI needs to be simple and work well, not sure I could say that about Hydra.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  8. Jan 2, 2018 #248 of 527
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Young people aren't buying TiVos at all. They're not even subscribing to cable. They're content with paying $12/mo for Netflix and watching free Youtube videos. The DVR is never going to appeal to young people no matter how much they change the UI. It's a dying technology that will eventually be replaced by OTT/VOD apps. The only reason TiVo is hanging on is because of a loyal base of users. (i.e. Us) They should be catering to those users instead of trying to appeal to some nonexistent new user.
     
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  9. Jan 3, 2018 #249 of 527
    Nickipedia

    Nickipedia Nick of Time

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    Exactly. The inconsistencies and lack of working, simple features have turned Hydra into Vista. I can't stand it either.

    Hydra is like buying a new car. It's radio is voice controlled with a flashy screen and the car looks nice. But after a couple months you learn the car can only travel at half the speed of your old one, power windows have been replaced with one crank window in the back passenger seat, and the headlights only work if the trunk is open. Plus the navigation system only shows you the 700 mile trip in the next (4) 1/2 mile increments. Oh, and if you need fuel, it's easy. You just pull into a station, hook up the hose, then go to a obsolete website and request the fuel be transferred from the station to the car. They even provide a nice spinning circle to watch until the car notifies you that "fuel transfer service is currently unavailable."

    Don't worry though, If you tell the car to "show me Tom Cruise movies where he says 'show me the money'" it'll work just fine...:rolleyes:

    One question about Hydra: "Will it blend?":D
     
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  10. Jan 3, 2018 #250 of 527
    TonyD79

    TonyD79 Well-Known Member

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    Odd. I do not find Hydra harder to use or any more difficult in doing most tasks. In fact, many are easier (like captions, more info...which never worked on recordings at all...buffer changes).

    From what I gather after a bit of time is that the biggest downside for some is the lack of live guide. And I get that. But otherwise, it is actually more straight forward.
     
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  11. Jan 3, 2018 #251 of 527
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    The term "hip" is correct, as in, "I'm so old I need a new hip. And get off my lawn!"
     
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  12. Jan 3, 2018 #252 of 527
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree in part, except the loyal user base is so small it's not profitable on its own. All the money is made in the MSO rentals, and they should be the ones steering the Rovi DVR ship. Hydra is a good sign that Rovi is still interested in attracting new MSO rental deals. The alternative is to shut it all down.

    Also, the only reason the text-based live and grid guides existed at all is because in 1999 there wasn't enough CPU power and Internet bandwidth to support pretty pictures. Just look at your 1999 cell phone vs. your smartphone today. Your smartphone now uses icons for the majority of the navigation because it can. It is simpler to use even though it does more things. When Roku and Amazon Fire came out, they didn't even bother with a text-only interface because they could do pretty pictures right out of the gate.

    Furthermore, as the population ages, it is more difficult for them to read text and easier for them to identify things using pictures. At least that's true of my 47-year-old eyes. So if most Tivo users are older than average, Hydra is a step in right direction even if the current implementation is clunky.
     
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  13. Jan 3, 2018 #253 of 527
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    Hi, new to TiVo, got a Bolt last month and decided not to Roll Back, since as its new to me, might as well learn with the new UI, however, I'm a bit curios as to what the Live Guide looks like. Google Images didn't help — can someone post here what the Live Guide looks like?
     
  14. Jan 3, 2018 #254 of 527
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

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    Attached Files:

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  15. Jan 3, 2018 #255 of 527
    PSU_Sudzi

    PSU_Sudzi Well-Known Member

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    If you go to page 3 of this post there are pics of both the grid guide and live guide on the gen3/old UI.
     
  16. Jan 3, 2018 #256 of 527
    Tony_T

    Tony_T Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, that does look a lot cleaner than the big graphics with direction up in Live w/Hydra
     
  17. Jan 3, 2018 #257 of 527
    stile99

    stile99 Well-Known Member

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    A mistake Roku obviously corrected, based on my usage.
     
  18. Jan 3, 2018 #258 of 527
    eherberg

    eherberg Active Member

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    The idea that TiVo should cater to it's hardcore users would be a sure-fire way to chart the company on a path to eventual failure. The quickest way to bankrupt your company is to cater to people who obsess over things like 'Live Guide'. :)

    Not trying to bring new people means there is only one direction your customer base numbers can go -- southward. There are still people getting DVR's - but they are getting them from sources doing non-traditional things. Tablo, Plex DVR, Live Channels, etc ... are all doing fine. They do things differently than the older, traditional TiVo (and older pay-TV model users, in general). Those people prefer a graphical interface. The information contained in a graphic can convey more information about a show through it's marketing photo than by text alone. Now what would be useful is a way to scale the size of the graphics. Due to screen size - I can scale down the graphics in Plex, for example, and get much more program entries on screen than I could with a text-based system. Of course - some features that are thought of as important to an older crowd are less so with newer users. I'm closer in age to traditional viewers than those newer users, but with a greater acceptance to newer frameworks, I couldn't care less about live-TV pausing in a DVR anymore, for example, when my TV combined with a flash drive gives me pause capability. It's a feature in a DVR that has no more use for me. What I found does have great use is a platform-agnostic means to watch recordings. Roku, AppleTV, FireTV ... whatever. The ability to view recordings on any of those devices matters to me.

    With the rumors that CES will show a hint at a future with cross-platform capability (possible with Hydra), TiVo may become more compelling again. It is my opinion that catering to the traditional base (which may be unavoidable due to TiVo's primary user-base of cable-TV customers) is responsible for holding TiVo back more than anything else. The last 3 recent reviews of TiVo that I read all made mention of it's aging interface and business model. One referenced it as feeling like 'going back in time' when compared to other options. The Street actually listed it as a failed technology that has now been passed by when compared to others. The hardcore loyalists will surely be throwing themselves on the floor rending their clothing at such a statement, but given that retail was nearly on the chopping block not that long ago gives a true impression of the adoption by new users. Again, my opinion is that TiVo may want to consider ditching the name altogether when moving to something true and innovative. The name itself is now being associated with an aging and out-of-touch model. Perhaps something with a new name that clearly differentiates itself from a Not-your-Grandpa's-TiVo would help disassociate itself from the traditional model.

    Hydra didn't go far enough. It's greatest drawback is trying to retain elements to cater to the traditional demographic. Trying to marry those 2 worlds is likely not going to work. Keep the previous interface ... make it the interface for the cable partners ... create something new that fully embraces a modern design and functionality and give it a new name to distance itself from the traditional TiVo. (And take another look at the current subscription/lifetime model - which has very little appeal outside of the traditional cable TV model). This would refresh my interest in TiVo (which I used to love). It was the best option at the time and I am still very fond of the TiVo for it's role in starting me down a better (and cheaper) media path. I would love to see it transition to a more network-based, platform-agnostic solution with rich metadata that positions itself as something new and ground-breaking again.
     
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  19. Jan 3, 2018 #259 of 527
    sangs

    sangs Active Member

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    Ditto. Hydra is so much easier to navigate. I guess if the Live Guide had been important to me, I'd be chafed, but it wasn't, especially since if I really want to use the Live Guide functionality I can do so with a simple tap of the finger in the App.
     
  20. Jan 3, 2018 #260 of 527
    mike246

    mike246 New Member

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    Like myself, I think most of the early users of Hydra were enthusiastic about trying it out. The disappointment is in the incredibly poor design. E.g., if you land on a title and there is only one item of that title, pressing play should .... play! The smart bar seems loaded with shows that are off the air and have no recordings. The guide which has been a staple of Tivo for years has been abandoned. There is no consistency in where you land after a recording completes. Over Christmas, for some reason the Tivo clock got off by 2 minutes and the end of all my recordings were truncated. Etc., etc., etc.
     

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