HR20 just whacked all the shows...

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by SpiritGreyWolf, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. SpiritGreyWolf

    SpiritGreyWolf Canyon carver

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    Nov 4, 2005
    ABQ, New Mexico

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    I can see that I shall need to plug back in my HR10-250. In a nutshell, box got updated (apparently the new menus are better contrasted so that I can see them better), but along with that all of the recorded shows are GONE!

    and of course DirecTV was as helpful as usual.

    Apparently the power went out today for about an hour and came back. When the HR20 came up all the shows were gone. Nice. The rep said, "Oh, well then that must be it".

    I really hate this HR20. As soon as my contract is up I'll go back to a TiVo and this time use cable cards.... <sigh>
     
  2. fjwagner

    fjwagner New Member

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    Jan 22, 2006
    Houston, Tx
  3. coachO

    coachO New Member

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    Nov 25, 2004
    near...
    Thanks for the comment on the HR20, I am still holding out.
     
  4. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Yep, DBSTalk.

    But the most likely reason is because you had a power outage it may have damaged the hard drive. On boot up it detected it and couldn't recover from the damaged sectors and thus formatted the drive in an attempt to continue to work.

    Exact same thing can happen with any computer or hard drive based device (however you'd find that it just won't boot). HR20 has some recovery software so that it tries to recover. If your hard drive fries on a Mac or PC or Tivo it's just plain fried and up to you to fix it.

    Not sure what you expect when you have a power outage without a UPS for protection, any hard drive can be fried.

    Highly recommend you get an UPS to put all your DVRs on so that they will be protected from spikes and such.

    Sorry for the problem and good luck. But it certainly isn't the fault of the HR20.
     
  5. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    Nov 18, 2000

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    We've had 2 instances in the last 6 months where all our saved programming has been completely wiped out on the HR20.

    In the many years that I've owned TiVo's we've never experienced this. Unfortunately it seems this is something more prevalent on the new DVR's, as mine isn't an isolated incident.

    Sorry this happened to you.
     
  6. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    It's certainly an indication of a bad hard drive. When this happened to my old T-60 it just wouldn't boot up at all or would take a really long time to boot up and then it would lock up right away. On the HR20 they built in this function that if it detects a bad drive to mark the sectors as bad and format to try to recover instead of just locking up or not booting at all. Your call on what is better I guess.

    In any case, if this has happened to you I would certainly call DirecTV for a replacement receiver because if the drive was bad before it still is bad and could happen again.
     
  7. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    Nov 18, 2000
  8. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Indianapolis...
    Yeah, it looks like the hard drives must be going out all over the place according to that thread, huh Scott? :)
     
  9. gio1269

    gio1269 "HR20 Army"

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    Yep same here on 3 HR10-250 that died. Had to send them back and lost all my shows :rolleyes: :mad: .
     
  10. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Look, it has been explained that if the hard drive is bad it may do this. The guy says the power went out and afterwords it did this. Thus the probablity of a bad sector or two is pretty good wouldn't you say?

    I'm not making any excuse, it is what it is. Power outages kill hard drives all the time and it's usually the spike when the power comes back on that does it.

    Maybe there is a bug that wasn't seen by the hundreds of CE testers. Always possible. But this one smells of bad hard drive. Anyway, report it on DBSTalk, this is not the place to discuss HR20 issues in detail per the mods.
     
  11. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    Ooookay ...not really relevant since I wasn't talking about an HR10 though.

    There's a big difference between a working unit that loses programming, and a unit that died. Try to keep up, and let's work on that focus thing. :p

    Scott, you're probably right about the HD sector, but my unit has done this and, other than the known bugs and whatnot, has been working normally (no obvious signs of failure).
     
  12. phox_mulder

    phox_mulder I get paid 2watch TV

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    Salt Lake...
    Before I put them all on UPS's, all my TiVo based DVR's made it through multiple power outages without losing all the recorded programs.

    Even since putting them on UPS's I've had to pull the power to fix lockups,
    and all the programs were still there afterward.

    Power outage shouldn't make you lose all your data, computer or DVR.


    phox
     
  13. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    But it does. I can't tell you how many hard drives I've replaced in my job due to power spikes. It's usually not the outage itself that can kill a hard drive (or motherboard for that matter) it's when the power comes back on. It usually is a quick "shot" and can spike well beyond the limit of many consumer electronics. It is a common thing in the computer world and even your fridge or microwave can be fried by the surge/spike.

    I personally have been lucky only losing one hard drive over the past 15 years due to a power surge after an outage, but I've seen it many, many times. Always safe to have a UPS. You may never get bit by it, but why take the chance.

    And let's not make this a Tivo vs. non-Tivo thing. Has nothing to do with it. If it happened to a Tivo, as I already posted, it would just not boot or would hang and crash all the time. The HR20 has a feature that instead of doing that it tries to recover the drive (which can mean the loss of recordings). So in a Tivo's case basically the drive is unusable and you lose your recordings anyway, but you need to wait for a replacement before using again. With the HR20 they went with a different approach to try to get the user back up and running again. Either way you lose recordings.

    Again, just be safe and get a UPS then it shouldn't happen.
     
  14. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    Agreed. And my experiences mirror yours.

    Having a HDD die and losing those recordings is one thing. No PVR software platform can do much about that. Hardware is hardware, and hardware has a finite lifetime.

    But having all content regulary and completely just disappear on a HDD that seems to otherwise not have a problem is just not something that ever happens on Tivo boxes, while there are numerous documented cases of it on HR20 and other PVRs from DTV, and also on many of the platforms used by DISH network PVRs. It probably has very little to do at all with the integrity of the HDD itself, and everything to do with cataloging routines. IOW, software.

    This is one of the many things that makes Tivo comparitively much more reliable to most other PVR platforms. If you've ever lost a HDD on your personal computer, you can probably relate to how the value of that data can sometimes be tens of times more dear to you than the value of the hardware it was stored on. If you lose 100 hours of recordings of serialized dramas that you may be part-way through and already emotionally invested in, it can be just as devastating, if not more so. Since backups are impractical for such data, having a platform that minimizes that possibility is worth its weight in gold.
     
  15. Redux

    Redux No intent to annoy

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    Is there any reason to correct this?

    If anybody _does_ believe this, please so indicate.
     
  16. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

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    Living in a...
    SpiritGreyWolf, did your newly empty system still have your settings and coller id list?
     
  17. ebonovic

    ebonovic has gone his way...

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    Tinley...
    100% I agree with it.

    You can simply look over the history of reports here on problems with hard drives on the TiVos... What is the #1 thing people tell people, when they are getting stuck at the "Welcome Screens"... hard drive gone bad.

    I have had two hard drives go bad in my TiVo's, and with one case... I lost 12 episodes of SmallVille, and I have never watched the series since.... and at the time, I didn't have 5 DVRs... I had one... which means I was without my DVR until I had it fixed.

    And yes, the HR20 does have a boot cycle check for issues with the hard drive, and will attempt to do it's job and recover what it can.

    You will see reports of people losing just "some" recordings, not all... after a reboot. That is the result of that process.

    While there is no guarantee that these reported problems of total loss, are hard drive issues... do you have another plausable explanation? to explain why it seems to be hitting people with no pattern, other then it occured during a reboot?

    And given the population of just the users at DBSTalk (that have acknowledged being a part of the forum, and owning at least 1 HR20), the report volume accross all four forum boards... is EXTREMELY low...

    And given that the software update for the HR20-700 has now been out for over a week, and the HR20-100 was released in the AM hours yesterday... You may see a few more posts, but you won't see a "flood" if this was some coding issue.
     
  18. sjberra

    sjberra New Member

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    May 16, 2005
    Umm, yes it can, it is more common place then you think. Power flucations, power drops can all damage computer hardware. have had machine restart with no issue after a power outage/brownout, have had them crash and burn. Have had machine not appear to be affected by a outage/brownout/overvoltage when it occurs but 3 or 4 weeks down the like start throwing bad sectors and corrupted files. It basicly depends on what is occurring at the time the power issue occurred as to if it will recover or crash and burn. If the power sent out when it was updated the to do list/season pass, there is a good chance that the file was left in a unknown state and the OS determined on restart that a delete and rebuild was required.

    In short - dirty power can cause a lot of damage on a device, be it immediately evident or sometime down the line. APC has brought out a complete line of UPS devices that are specificly designed for Home Theatre, given their repuatation - they are not doing it for the fluff and wow factor, but because there is a need for it
     
  19. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Indianapolis...
    The dbstalk link that was mentioned above seems to indicate that folks lose their recordings because of the software as much as the hardware.
     
  20. TyroneShoes

    TyroneShoes HD evangelist

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    Sep 6, 2004
    There is nothing all that unique about that process. Virtually every microprocessor-based device does a sanity check and HDD checks (assuming it has a HDD) during its POST routine at startup.

    And there is also nothing that special about the HR20 in that regard. All Tivos are capable of much the same recovery routines, which are known as kick-start routines and are built into the operating system. The only difference is that the box doesn't blindly try to recover (and delete what it designates as corrupt files) at startup on Tivo. You have to invoke the routines using remote commands, which gives you choices as exactly which routines to run rather than the arrogance of not being able to opt out of those routines.
     

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