HR20 Issues and Differences from Tivo

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by bonscott87, Jul 21, 2007.

  1. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    So, do you want to know what problems there are with the HR20 or what you might miss on the HR20 from the Tivo? Well, here it is and others can feel free to add to it.

    Now this thread may get locked for breaking the rules and that's fine. But it's pretty obvious there is a lot of mud slinging around here and perhaps this thread well help stop that. Besides, none of this is a secret. A quick look at DBSTalk will show you.

    As I've stated before when challenged, every receiver, every service, everything in life has Pros and Cons. One just needs to make an informed decision and move on. As for the HR20, some people feel they are between a rock and a hard place. The fact is that if you want to get the new HD coming and eventually all HD from the sats you will need to get an HR20 like it or not. If any of the below issues are dealbreakers then it's time to look at other options.
    If you have a good cable company then the Series 3 Tivo may be a great choice. If you have Comcast the Comcast Tivo might be coming out soon. Dish also has a good selection of DVRs, the ViP series is their best yet. But it's not Tivo. And of course there is always a Series 2 Tivo connected to pretty much anything. All good choices.

    As always, the best place to discuss this is DBSTalk, a sister site of this forum which is owned by the same people along with AVS.
    And here are a few starter threads for you.

    HR20 Forum: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112
    HR20 Tips and Tricks: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648
    Tivo to HR20 Survival Guide: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=69404
    Wish List: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=80600 (Note that DirecTV has responded to this list and granted many of them in recent months.)

    Current Issues

    Channels I Receive (CIR)
    This does not currently work as it shows all channels. This effects you if you want to do a search or autorecord search. Depending on what you are searching for it may pull up programs on channels you do not get. Once older receivers are updated to handle the changes in the data stream this will then function correctly.

    "Short" recordings
    Some users have noticed short recordings. Typically it's just a few seconds. In my own testing the HR20 seems to start a recording 5-7 seconds later then a Tivo. There are a couple large threads at DBSTalk working thru the problem and a lot of good things have come out of them for DirecTV to look at. This of course is not the problem where the networks just didn't start on time or ran long. As we all know this effects all DVRs. A DVR is only as good as the guide data.

    Show doesn't record (Error 13)
    Seems to happen sometimes when the guide data has no episode title. Doesn't always happen though. Mostly seen by those that record a lot of kids programming off Disney. Other then that there isn't a widespread problem of shows not recording. Again, good thread on DBSTalk that worked the problem. Unlike what some people say here, you don't get flamed for posting problems about the HR20. On the contrary, the problem is worked out and information presented to DirecTV in hopes they can fix it.

    The odd crash or lockup
    Amazingly enough people with the HR20 may get a lockup or crash just like any other receiver out there. It's pretty rare nowadays but it does indeed happen. Shocker. :D

    Things you might miss from Tivo

    Dual Live Buffers (DLBs)
    The big one. There are 2 tuners (4 actually...2 sat and 2 OTA) on the HR20 and it functions just like the HR10 in that you can record 2 things at once and watch a 3rd recorded program. But what you can't easily do is switch between 2 live programs and preserve a buffer for both as there is only 1 live buffer. It's not a bug but a design descision. There is a VERY large thread on DBSTalk about DLBs and it's probably the top requested feature.

    Advanced Wishlists
    For those that did basic searching (title, keyword, etc) on the Tivo will find it very similar on the HR20 and you can autorecord as well. What's not here are advanced wishlist functionality (like a keyword with 5 more filters applied). So if you depend on advanced wishlists be aware. It has been mentioned that more advanced searching is on the list of enhancements.

    "Tivo style" guide
    It's not here. There is a reason why it's called the "Tivo style" guide, it's only on a Tivo. ;) On the HR20 you can highlight the channel number in the guide and press the Info button to get a listing of all programs on that channel for the next 2 weeks, but it's not the same.

    Suggestions/Thumbs
    It's just a Tivo thing.

    Search on custom list
    Currently you cannot search or setup autorecords on a custom list. It's an oft requested feature request that I myself have championed that even after CIR is working we still need to be able to eliminate channels we don't want from searches

    Autocorrection
    This was just added in the current national release that started rolling out this weekend. Yes it's a Tivo patent but somehow DirecTV added it. Seems to work pretty much the same.

    OTA Scanning
    While OTA works fine on the HR20 there is no blind scanning feature so it relies on Tribune guide data for the OTA stations. Remember that OTA reception is an art, not a science and that all OTA tuners are different. So just like the HR10's OTA tuners can be better or worse then the one you had before, same for the HR20. It can be better or worse for you depending on your situation.

    Series Link (season pass) limits
    Currently, for whatever reason, there is a limit of 50 total series links. Don't ask why, nobody knows. There has been talked about this limit being lifted or upped. No other information about it.

    "Peanut" Remote
    Obviously this is a Tivo only thing. If the peanut remote is your #1 must have then you'll be disappointed.

    ------------------------------------------------

    Ok, so there is it. I won't speak to any advantage the HR20 may have as that will just incite the flamers.

    Hopefully this thread will help to stop the FUD and foster better discussions in the future.
     
  2. litzdog911

    litzdog911 TechKnow Guide

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    Mill Creek,...
    Here's a summary that I pulled together a few weeks ago .... still pretty much valid:

    Summary of HR20 vs. HR10-250

    HR20 Advantages:
    * MPEG4 (Ka-band) HiDef channels: Receive all of the newest HiDef channels from the 99 & 103-deg satellites with a 5-LNB dish
    * 90-min buffer
    * Faster Program Guide interface
    * Faster reprioritization of Series Link settings
    * Remaining disk space guage
    * Single button record scheduling
    * Network connectivity: Share music and photo files with your Media Center PC
    * Easy storage capacity upgrade: Just add large capacity external SATA drive, replacing internal drive
    * Caller ID displayed on screen
    * Native RF Remote control support using DirecTV's RF Remote
    * Same channel overlap: Pad recording times on the same channel without requiring the second tuner
    * Video stays "live" when using menus
    * Video on Demand (VOD): Coming soon
    * "Active channel" content and interactive features
    * Slightly better over-the-air (ATSC) tuner hardware (but not by much)
    * Simultaneous video outputs over HDMI, component, SVideo and composite video
    * Single Wire Multiswith (SWM) support


    HR10-250 Advantages:
    * Tivo user interface (Wishlists, Tivo Suggestions)
    * Live dual tuner 30-min buffers
    * Instant 30-sec skip: Enabled using Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select "backdoor" code
    * Smoother FF/REW modes
    * Easier "skip to next/previous tick" with dedicated remote buttons
    * "Channels I Receive" feature works properly
    * More than 50 Season Passes/Series Links
    * Slightly more reliable and robust software
     
  3. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Nice job guys.

    The one issue I'd like to mention is the responsiveness of the box to the control. I believe that sometimes it looks like commands are not being received. I think this is an annoyance that may bother some Tivo users a lot.
     
  4. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

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    Long Island, NY
    To keep in line with the current sentiment here at TCF that only bad news about the HR20 is welcome, I'll add the following that long-time TiVo users may not care for on the HR20:

    • Every screen in the HR20 has PIP, showing in the upper right of the screen either LIVE TV or the program currently being played back. If you are recording two series and don't want to see what's happening by going to your playlist before turning on your TV, it's hard to avoid.
    • The HR20 has a 30-second-SLIP function, unlike the unsupported 30-second SKIP function on the TiVo. SKIP is instantaneous on TiVo, while SLIP on the HR20 takes approximately 2.5 seconds and content is visible while the software goes into a FFW burst.
    • Skip-to-tick is implemented differently, requiring PRESS-AND-HOLD of a key to activate it.

    As Scott mentioned, you can find more information about the HR20 at DBSTalk.com
     
  5. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    If what you are referring to is entering in a channel number and it not going right away unless you hit the enter key, that bug was with the setting for the quick info banner. It has been fixed.

    Also "keybounce" issues have also been mostly fixed in the recent CE cycle going national as we speak.

    If you're talking about something else then you'll have to explain it.
     
  6. RS4

    RS4 New Member

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    Indianapolis...
    I would suggest looking at items like this: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92513

    What you'll find is that there is still a huge discussion on if the problems have been fixed for most people.

    Of course the other huge item that was not mentioned is the User Interface. Many Tivo users feel that it is not intuitive and that will be a major factor for a lot of people. Again, search the other forums and find out for yourself.

    "If you're talking about something else then you'll have to explain it."

    I was referring to the Press and Hold that Drew mentioned and to a problem with the remote being if RF mode (I think) where the user would have to press the key several times only to discover that they were being stored up in the buffer and being acted on at one time.
     
  7. dfioc

    dfioc New Member

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    Orange...
    I find it interesting how you can comment on something you've never tried (HR20). By your own admission, you're soley relying upon what others say in various forums and not upon your own first-hand experience. Kind of hurts your credibility in my mind.

    Here's your quote:
     
  8. kbohip

    kbohip New Member

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    Colorado...
    NOOOOOOOO. I was SO looking forward to getting away from this stupid "feature" with the HR20. :( Seriously, it's probably the single largest thing I dislike about Tivo, well that and the remote. I hope Tivo sues Directv over this and makes them take it back off. :up:

    Bonscott, as far as Wishlists go on the HR20, how do they work? What I mean is let's say I see a show that looks interesting to me but it's not scheduled to come on until fall. Obviously this new show won't be in the guide data for many months. On Tivo I simply enter a auto-record title Wishlist and it picks it up in the fall when it gets into the guide data. Am I able to do this with the HR20?

    BTW, my HR20 gets installed on Monday. Wish me luck guys!
     
  9. Todd

    Todd Gee thanks Jeremy...

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    Coastal...

    • Yeh, I think this is really going to annoy me, especially when watching sports!
     
  10. Todd

    Todd Gee thanks Jeremy...

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    Coastal...
    I'm glad they're implementing it, but I do hope that they back off on the amount of the correction that's in the DirecTV TiVo boxes. It's better on the stand alone TiVos. BTW, other DVRs have the correction also, such as the Motorola boxes that Cox Cable rents around here.
     
  11. Sir_winealot

    Sir_winealot Seenyer Member

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    I can't stand the the HR20 pom-pom waving, evangelizing and 'vs HR10' pissing matches. That said....

    this is the type information/discussion we need around here IMO. Great post ....thanks for (taking the time, and) doing this! :up:
     
  12. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

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    Never fear. The HR20 FFW Correction feature can be enabled and disabled through the interface at will. For other enhancements and tipis and tricks, you know where to visit. :)
     
  13. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Well, as Drew said you can turn it on or off in the setup menus. One thing DirecTV has gone thru is to add a lot of things that you can turn on and off based on user feedback. And they spent the last CE cycle tweaking the timings of the Autocorrection. So they would release a CE on the weekend, we'd post feedback and they would tweak the autocorrection values in a CE the following weekend. DirecTV is working really closely with DBSTalk and it's users to make the HR20 as good as it can be. That more then anything must be what RS4 misses when he thinks DirecTV doesn't care about it's users. But I digress, don't want this thread to become a flame fest.

    As far as I know you can setup a keyword search on autorecord and it will pick up the new show. But you need to be careful since you'll hit the 50 limit quick if you do this a lot. Yes, nobody likes the 50 limit.

    Once you get it please stop by DBSTalk with your comments and especially suggestions to make it better.
     
  14. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Yea it can. The funny thing is that it's has historically been one of the top requested features for the Tivo's. So DirecTV delivered it. But you can't please everyone with it. We have pushed for a way to disabled it. Personally if I think I might be spoiled I'll mute the sound and hold my hand up to block the picture while choosing the program in question. It might look funny but it works! I really like it the rest of the time so I personally prefer to have it on then to not have it at all. It's those pros and cons I've talked about. :)
     
  15. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    I can't speak to personal experience since RF doesn't work well for me (too much other interference) but from what I know RF remotes in general can be hit or miss for people depending on the environment they are in. I don't think the HR20 RF remote is any different in that respect. Remote Central has a wealth of remote related information.
     
  16. kbohip

    kbohip New Member

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    Yes! :up: BTW, the reason I don't like this feature so much? My first DVR's were from Dish and didn't have this. For years I got used to fast forwarding and being able to hit the play button within a second or two of the program starting. I'm definitely glad to hear Directv gives you the option to turn this off.
     
  17. kbohip

    kbohip New Member

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    Colorado...
    Thanks for the info Scott. I'll definitely be stopping by that "other" forum once I get the HR20 up and running for a few weeks. I want to really get used to it before I make any comments about it. As far as the 50 SP limit, I agree that it's a dumb idea at best, but I'm safe for now.

    I'll say this right now though. One of the main reasons I decided to stay with Directv is they really do seem to care about their current customers. The very fact that their implementing some of the ideas you guys have come up with for the HR20 have come up with is refreshing to me.
     
  18. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    I think the perfect example of this is the one button guide. I guess on pretty much every DirecTV receiver out there with the new UI (D11, D12, H20, R15, etc.) all require you press the guide button twice to actually get to the guide (first press brings up a filter list). Dumb IMO.

    HR20 ended up with the same thing.

    After much pressure they made it an option on the HR20 for one press of the guide button to get to the guide and I believe it's default (if not it's easy to turn on in the menu). And now they are going to update *all* their receiver models to include this option.

    There was one release back a few months ago where 4 or 5 of the top 10 requested items on the wishlist were added. Most were minor to be sure but they were added.

    I'll make a prediction that after VOD you'll see some improvements in the search features as one of the next items on the list. (I have no inside info, just my prediction).

    So yes, the users have made a difference and DirecTV listens. Doesn't mean we get everything we want but at least they have their ears open.
     
  19. newsposter

    newsposter Poster of News

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    ouch, i think this is a ploy to get us to buy more machines...I have 144SP on my 60hr machine and 58 on my 30 hour machine. by my math that means i'd need at least 4 hr20's and maybe one more for expansion. I bet the hr20 is so fast because of that 50 limit ;)
     
  20. Mark Lopez

    Mark Lopez Just click ignore

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    On the 50 limit, I have to admit I watch a lot of TV (probably too much) and yet I only have about 35 SPs. And I need to purge some of them because some shows have been canceled. I just have to wonder when people find the time to watch all that TV, post all day on the Internet and read Harry Potter books. ;) . Doesn't anyone actually get outside anymore? :)
     

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