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HR10-250 OTA Guide/Translation question

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by lightguy48, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Mar 22, 2006 #1 of 8
    lightguy48

    lightguy48 New Member

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    May 17, 2004
    Waco, TX

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    I did a quick search and didn't find anything so I apologize if I'm re-hashing old stuff.

    Am I correct in understanding that D* sends down the local HD guide and channel translation for OTA HD channels? And second, that they get this information from Zap2It?

    The reason for my question, today a couple of new channels popped up for an HD station within our 'market' area but it's outside of our local coverage area (about 70-80miles away). And at the same time one of my local HD channels quit working.

    First, there is NO physical way my receiver could have possibly picked up PSIP for this station that was 80 miles away and added it to my guide, the only possible source is D*.

    Second, I can manually tune to the station I lost by punching in their true HD channel (not the re-directed NTSC channel).

    Third, anytime I have manually scanned for HD channels even after weeks and weeks I never see ANY of their PSIP guide info pop into the HR10-250 channel guide, yet my DTC-210 DOES pickup the channel guide info from PSIP.

    So in a nutshell, after a long conversation with D* they absolutely positively deny they're sending the HD guide/channel translation to my 250 but yet I can see no other possibility, and now I'm stuck with a channel that I can't watch and if I manually scan it the 250 doesn't pull the PSIP guide so it's worthless too.

    Can someone shed some insight to my issue?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Mar 22, 2006 #2 of 8
    chris_h

    chris_h New Member

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Sacramento, CA
    Well, I can try. First of all, the term PSIP is used to mean many different things by many different people. Some people say that the HR10 does not use PSIP data, but I disagree.
    The PSIP data contains information on the audio/video data streams which must be used by the HR10 in order to display an image (and give you sound).

    The PSIP data also contains physical-to-virtual channel mapping information. The physical channel is what you call the "true HD channel" and the virtual channel is what it gets mapped to so you can tune it in using the historic channel number, what you call the "re-directed NTSC channel."

    PSIP data also contains information on upcoming events, or programs, which we call guide data.

    It is my understanding (and I have no inside knowledge of the HR10 firmware) that the HR10 :
    1) Must use PSIP data for audio/video streams.
    2) Does not ever use PSIP data for guide information.
    3) Will use PSIP data for channel mapping when you do a channel scan. If the channel mapping information in the new PSIP data when you do a scan is missing or bad, you will have to tune to the physical channel in order to see a picture. The fix is for the station to fix their PSIP data, probably by rebooting their PSIP generator.

    The guide data does come from tribune media services (they gather it from individual stations) which runs the zap2it web site. Tribune provides guide data to D*, and they send it via the satellites.

    The list of channels available in your area (based on your input zip code) I think also comes from the satellites, but I am not sure.

    I hope this helps.
     
  3. Mar 22, 2006 #3 of 8
    lightguy48

    lightguy48 New Member

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    May 17, 2004
    Waco, TX
    True, I sometimes dumb-down stuff (I'm a broadcast engineer and have been to many PSIP seminars even though I primarily work in radio).

    But you're stating what I have found in the field to be the case. That the guide info sent by the station's PSIP generator is ignored in the HR10-250 (whereas units such as the RCA DTC-210 merge this info into the D* guide)

    I have noticed as well that it does use the more basic channel mapping information from PSIP for the audio and video streams. But it appears that Tivo also provides some kind of channel mapping info to tell the HR10-250 to look at the proper ATSC channel when the NTSC channel is entered on the remote. The reason I surmise this is because before ever performing an OTA channel scan if I punched in 6-1 (NTSC channel for local NBC affiliate) it immediately found the ATSC signal on 9-1. I've never seen any other receiver do this without performing a channel scan first. So it had to get that information from somewhere.

    Does this sound correct?
     
  4. Mar 22, 2006 #4 of 8
    chris_h

    chris_h New Member

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    Dec 17, 2003
    Sacramento, CA
    Wow, now I feel like a complete fool! I just gave a PSIP info lecture to someone that knows PSIP better than I do. Ooops! How was I to know?

    I suspect that the channel mapping data must also come from D* then, based on your statement. Now that I think about it, I don't think I ever did a channel scan on my HR10 box I activated about 6 weeks ago, and it gets in all of the ATSC channels fine. I can't remember if a channel scan is part of the guided setup or not.
     
  5. Mar 22, 2006 #5 of 8
    lightguy48

    lightguy48 New Member

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    May 17, 2004
    Waco, TX

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    I don't know, I'll have to check the next time I've cleared my list of recorded shows and have time to experiment.

    BTW, here is more than you ever wanted to know about PSIP:

    http://www.psip.org

    It really is quite fascinating all the things that can be done with it, unfortunately there are a lot of TV stations that don't utilize all the features or configure it properly.

    And what can be real frustrating is not all HD receivers respond the same way to PSIP information. For instance, the local Fox station here in town was having issues with their Grass Valley PSIP generator, my Mitsu TV didn't notice it all, but my HR10-250 and DTC-210 would not lock on.

    It's kind of like RDS for radio stations, each manufacturer intereprets the standards slightly differently.
     
  6. Mar 23, 2006 #6 of 8
    JimSpence

    JimSpence Just hangin'

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    Binghamton, NY
    Call me uninformed on this subject, but don't you have to enter your zipcode in order for the unit to know what guide data it is supposed to use when downloaded from the sat?
     
  7. Mar 23, 2006 #7 of 8
    Philly Bill

    Philly Bill Everyday is Saturday

    6,221
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    Oct 6, 2004
    Rotonda...
    Well all I know is that when I took my HDTIVO to Birmingham last week and changed the internal Zip Code to a Birmingham zip code... I got the Birmingham channels in my guide.

    When I got home and changed it back, my home locals came back. :)
     
  8. Mar 23, 2006 #8 of 8
    lightguy48

    lightguy48 New Member

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    May 17, 2004
    Waco, TX
    Yep, that's correct. And that's why I'm 99.99% certain that it doesn't use PSIP for the guide information. To be able to punch in the zip code an it immediately know what HD channels are available and have some guide information (after a call-in) just doesn't jive with PSIP based system.

    PSIP guide information takes a little bit to download as I recall.
     

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