How will Tivo Series 2 sets be able to tune the upcoming DTV Broadcast Converters?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by 056557, Nov 24, 2007.

  1. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    Ontario Canada.

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    I agree, if it is possible to tweak the server backsides to do that and leave it as an unsupported treat for those that know how to do it, or are willing to learn.

    I still say though, that TiVo wouldn't want to do that to be the official solution to OTA box support.

    I am thinking though, that they essentially relay what they
    get from Tribune's servers, so they (Tribune) would either have to add a satellite lineup that mirrors digital OTA, or TiVo would have to set a proxy trap on their servers, to fake a digital OTA lineup as satellite.
    Either would take a bit of work. Changing the box software might look just as easy.

    Generally they don't mind, as long as you don't "steal" their "service", or violate the copyrights of content creators and distributors.
    I don't know actually, but they want to serve the lowest common denominator, and be intuitive for that lowest common denominator of users. Having to choose "satellite" for an antenna setup is simply counter to that. Not to mention what happens when somebody has satellite+antenna, or asks how to get a higher sub-channel.
     
  2. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Rochester NY
    As others have said much of this is speculation. Nothing wrong with that I actually like to speculate - when I do speculate on something it is usually based on my personal knowledge of the issue including historical info. When it comes to TiVo, coding, and the like I have no personal knowledge. So the only thing I have to base my speculation on is history.

    So what is TiVo's history when it comes to OTA or OTA+Satellite users? Well back in early 2006 TiVo released their Series 2 DT unit. This unit could have easily supported recording 2 OTA analog channels or 1 OTA air analog channel and 1 satellite channel at a time. What did TiVo chose to do? Not support OTA at all. I am sure this decision made perfect sense to TiVo after all they new:
    1. They would be releasing the Series 3 that fall
    2. That they would have to disable OTA for new Series 2 DT units made/sold after 3/07 to comply with federal regulations
    3. They were still selling the single tuner Series 2 that would do OTA and that the only other choice OTA users had was a media PC.
    Next along comes the Series 3 and then the TiVo HD units, great of OTA only users but not so great for OTA+satellite users because they left out STB support. Again I am sure this made perfect sense to TiVo.

    During this same time period dial in users experienced a reduced number of dial in numbers. What did TiVo do if you no longer had a local dial in number to call? Nothing.

    So history shows us (and rightly so) that TiVo makes decisions that they think are the best for them even if it means leaving some of their subscriber base without the optimal choses.

    So I will speculate that TiVo will do what ever they believe is best financially for TiVo. If this means abandoning support for OTA or OTA+Satellite Series 1 & 2 users then we will be abandoned.

    The only real difference now is that we may have more viable options and TiVo may have to factor in actually losing subscribers into their determination.
    1. Anyone that already has a good PC can easily add dual OTA HD tuners and DVR software to it for $200 (see http://store.snapstream.com/btv-hdhr.html ) so media PCs are actually becoming a viable option for the masses
    2. The Echostar TR-50 DVR may be an acceptable alternative to the TiVo HD.
    3. For OTA+Satellite users the DN VIP 722 provides OTA and satellite support with 3 tuners.
    Thanks,
     
  3. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    Ontario Canada.
    That is most likely it. Set the long term function of the product at the outset, to avoid confusion were they to change the function if the physical product mid-stream.

    There is a certain "curve" to that, where only people with a certain technical acuity or affluence will do that.

    DirecTV also has their HD-DVR, which has digital OTA suppoer (either direct or with an add-on box, depending on model of DVR).

    Neither address Stanadlone satellite users that want to tune digital OTA, if there will be a "backdoor" OTA lineup under satellite.
     
  4. bicker

    bicker bUU

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    Florida
    Or so you think. Let me "take you to task" for the presumption. :)

    Indeed. :up:
     
  5. Skuits

    Skuits New Member

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    Aug 20, 2007

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    Hello all, I recently purchased an ATSC tuner (with government coupon)to use with my Tivo S2 and am not able to, as most of you already know!!!

    Since there are no IR codes available as of yet to control the Tivo is one problem. The other being is I can't seem to figure out how to interface it with the S2.? I thought it would be as simple as using the A/V input on the Tivo but that's not working for me. I only have "Tivo basic" service, which is free with my particular unit and it doesn't allow me to use two input eg antenna and satelite. I am not sure if this is why I am unable to use the ATSC tuner on the S2 (Toshiba RS TX20).

    I've put in a request with Tivo regarding my issue in hopes they would develop the IR codes. I recommend that everyone who using OTB do the same, hopefully they'll hear our requests!!!

    If someone can please help me with instructions on how to view the ATSC tuner through the Tivo S2 I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
  6. ZeoTiVo

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

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    That is why. Only one input on TiVoBasic.
    Also I am not sure you can use Antenna and Sat together anyhow.
     
  7. Puppy76

    Puppy76 Well-Known Member

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    You would be able to (and then have to) switch over from it's internal tuner to the external tuner, except of course that right now that won't work at all since Tivo doesn't support them. :(

    What brand did you get? I have no idea what brand to buy, or where to get them. I went to Best Buy a few months ago and they didn't have ANY. I've got my coupons now, but I don't know where or what to buy.
     
  8. Shawn95GT

    Shawn95GT Tivo, in HD!

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    Phoenix, AZ
    I think I'm gonna try the RCA boxes for 'dumb luck' IR code support.
     
  9. Skuits

    Skuits New Member

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    I got the Zenith DTT900 from Circuit City. It doesn't have analog pass through though. I understand that some low power stations aren't required to switch, so if you're in that situation you should look for a model that has the bypass. Here's a list, the models with analog pass through are marked with an asterisk.

    https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

    Another issue I have is that I get more channels on analog so using the converter box only limits my OTA viewing. Using only Basic Tivo has limted my viewing options also :confused:

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
  10. davidb4775

    davidb4775 Member

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    That seems to be the rub with next years conversion. It seems to me that you will have to use the TiVo like an old fashion VCR. Assuming OTA reception, cable to the converter. Then cable out from the converter to the TiVo, then cable out from the TiVo to the TV. Set your TV on Ch 3. Add channel three to your TiVo and change to that channel. If you have TiVo basic, I am guessing you have one of the non-tivo units, like the Toshiba. In the Toshiba, you can make manual recordings to channel 3 at xx time until xx time. Problem is you will have to set the channel with the converter to the desired channel. If you want to record three shows from 7-10 on channel 4, you are ok. If, however, your programs are on different channels, you're SOL because the channel on the converter would have to be changed and that sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it. I have HEARD that Echo Star is coming out with a converter (TR-40) link that will have "VCR Auto Tune Timers". That converter MIGHT have the ability to set record times and channels like a VCR. It's still alot of work!

    The type of TV (and inout conenctions) will determine if you will be able to watch live TV and record on the TiVo at the same time. Presently, I have the RF cable going to a splitter. One output of the splitter goes to the RF TV input and the other RF antenna goes to the TiVo. The TiVo plugs into my TV via RCA connectors (composite). To watch live TV, I tune to the channel. To view the composite input, my TV makes me change to channel 91.
     
  11. Skuits

    Skuits New Member

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    Well I've gotten the Tivo to change the channels on the Zenith DTT900 using LG IR codes. However the ATSC tuner has dashes in its channel line up, so I am having trouble matching the channel info.

    Does anyone have any suggestions for this???

    As an example I have NBC on channel 6-1 and the CW on channel 6-2 so basically the Tivo thinks I have two channel 6's. Same program info for both. I can't really type in the correct channel number on the Tivo remote either as it doesn't lineup correctly. I am wondering if answering differently during guided set up would make a difference.

    Thanks,
    Mark
     
  12. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Texas
    The best method I have found so far for my RCA DTA800.


    You have to rerun guided setup. But first you need to pick a zipcode that has att uverse and check to make sure that the channels closely match your locals.
    • Choose cable as provider
    • choose att uverse
    • choose your set top box
    • choose 2 digit channels

    Once you do this, if it works like my RCA, it will change the channel to 04 which will map to 04-1 on your converter. You won't be able to get the other sub channels like 04-2 or 04-3 for example.

    If this works for you (or if it does not) be kind enough to reply with your test results.

    Oh, I did not read all the post... if you actually have different affiliates on the sub channels... then it's not going to work well unitl Tivo makes a change.

     
  13. kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Member

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    Phoenix,AZ
    What manufacturer is listed for your set top box when you finish setting up?
     
  14. Skuits

    Skuits New Member

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    Aug 20, 2007
    The set top box (ATSC tuner) is made Zenith, I used the LG IR codes to control it. It's frought with issues though. Tivo states they're working on providing the correct codes.

    Mark
     
  15. gastrof

    gastrof Hubcaps r in fashion

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    Potato and pen.
    That's news to the rest of us.

    When did you hear that TiVo was updating the software to control set top digital OTA boxes? (And from who?)
     
  16. kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Member

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    Makes sense, the screen shots of the Zenith box have a nearly identical GUI as the LG HD Tuners that work with tivo
     
  17. TiVo Steve

    TiVo Steve New Member

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    Seattle WA.
    LG has been making Zenith plasma TVs for years!
     
  18. kb7oeb

    kb7oeb Member

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    Phoenix,AZ
    LG bought Zenith years ago
     
  19. Skuits

    Skuits New Member

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    Aug 20, 2007
    At the risk of starting rumors; I sent a private message to another forum user who states he's a Tivo engineer. He states they are aware of the changeover date and are working on a solution for the ATSC tuner interface issue, prior to the switch over date.

    Hope that helps,

    Mark
     
  20. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    Plus TivoPony stated this in the "Tivo's downward spiral" thread, post #22 I believe (you may want to skip the rest of that thread though).
     

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