How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by BadCommand, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017

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    Remember what I said about romios and that you only lose recordings and settings in most cases only on the hard drive that is installed at the time the rollback is performed, I have already for the most part proven that to be correct, I am just finishing up the next step to prove I am correct, more completely and thoroughly, and

    unlike some others that posted statements like what I have been saying within this forum but then not explain the why or how it is possible and how to do it, with romio devices,I am perfectly willing to and happy to explain how to do it even if some others don't like it or do not believe it is possible.

    In other words I am saying if you have a way to do something or perform a procedure while preserving certain things or makes the job easier to do, and benefits others then post it and share it but be willing to explain how you did it, but don't just make statements without the why and how, as I saw some others do in this forum talking about the same things, I have mentioned such as their is a way to rollback from hydra while preserving your recordings but they never explained themselves or the why and how, and the variables involved or that it only works with romio devices and not bolts,

    Thats what got my started with my kick about this can be done and my wanting to further prove it can be done. So others will have an easier time rolling back their romios,

    but have a better foundation utilizing their romios and its capabilities to then be able to pull recordings more easily from their other tivos such as tivo bolts, before starting the rollback procedures on a tivo bolt, for example.
     
  2. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Some good and bad news after running my last test concerning a permanent downgrade, I will post my findings below, the good news is if you have other tivo devices such as tivo bolts and other romios, you can do the swap hard drive method and temporarily downgrade the software, so you can at least back up your recordings from other tivos in case tivo online does not work, or tivo py is not allowing a transfer into a computer, which will allow you to at least transfer the recordings directly into a different hard drive, from another tivo running hydra before performing a permanent downgrade, but then if you want to use that hard drive again without losing the recordings or settings on the factory drive or expanded and reformatted hard drive, you will need to reupgrade back into the hydra platform, with romios before reinstalling the factory drive or reformatted and expanded hard, as I discovered that if you leave it in classic a screen error pops up that says call tivo custumer service software downgrade detected.
     
  3. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    I have completed my final test with my romio pro concerning if it is possible using the swap hard drive method to permantely downgrade and then reinstall the factory drive or an mffs reformated drive back in and still have the drive boot while preserving all recordings and settings. Their is some good news and bad news concerning this.

    The good news is you can using the swap hard drive method temporarily downgrade the software from hydra to at least get recordings out of other tivo devices before performing a permanent downgrade procedure on other tivo devices such as other romios or bolts, and you can still create multiple restore drives with romio devices for other tivo devices, but you will need to reupgrade back into the hydra platform on the tivo device you performed the swap in before putting the factory hard drive or expanded or reformatted hard drive back in.

    This is still a good foundation though to at least be able to get at least one tivo permanetely downgraded while at least preserving recordings you want to keep in case tivo py or tivo online does not work correctly. You can still use kttmg as well to back up season passes.

    Now to the bad news if you leave the tivo romio in the classic platform after performing the hard drive swap, and then reinstall the factory hard drive or the normal hard drive you use, without upgrading back into hydra before reinstalling the normal hard drive you use,then an error screen pops up saying call tivo custumer service software downgrade detected, and the drive won't boot up, so for me, I did back up to my old trusty series 4 tivo my recordings that were left on my romio using a 4tb drive in my series 4, and as far as the settings I did not really care about them but I wanted to test to see if I could preserve my recordings and settings on my 6tb drive, I use regularly in my romio, unfortunately while the drive was not wiped a software downgrade error came up, so I am doing a drive wipe on my 6tb drive and then I will reformat it using mffs reformator version 4,

    But not all bad news as I have discovered another way to back up and get recordings out without fail of tivo users that have multiple tivos, so they can at least have a foundation to start permanent downgrade procedures 1 at a time on multiple tivos while preserving recordings without the attempts to transfer and back up recordings failing or not completing the transfers successfully.

    Also 1 final note swapping back and forth between different hard drives and software platforms will only work with romio devices, not tivo bolts or newer tivos, and if you do not have multiple tivos or have newer tivos and only 1 romio, or just 1 tivo, I highly recomend going to Amazon and purchasing a refurbished romio pro that comes included with the all in service plan, before attempting any downgrade procedures on any tivo or using my method.
     
  4. sliderbob

    sliderbob Member

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    Mar 17, 2008
    Ogden, UT
    So should I be able to remove my Tivo Roamio's 8th hard drive with recordings, replace it with, say a 500gb hard drive, downgrade from Hydra to TE3, clear and delete everything, remove the 500gb drive, replace it with my 8tb drive and have it working again with TE3 with all my shows?
     
  5. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Unfortunately a permanent rollback when I tried it does not work in as a downgrade error pops up but if you had other tivos you wanted to rollback first you could stick the 500 gig in or any drive up to 3 tb and perform the rollback temporarily, so you can transfer the recordings out of the bolt or romio you want to rollback, then if you reupgrade back into hydra on a romio device you transfered the recordings to then put back in the 8tb drive all settings will still be their.

    I have now rollbacked My two bolts and my romio pro permantely but I preserved all recordings first.

    Bottom line is you can with romio devices switch back and forth between hydra and te3 just to preserve and transfer recordings from other tivo devices, such as bolts that can be rolled back, but I also recomend using tivo py as well if you need it.

    Here's an example you want to install and replace a hard drive in another romio or bolt or you want to upgrade to an 8tb drive.

    1. You would install a 3tb drive in your romio let it auto format go through guided setup then perform the rollback procedure then repeat guided setup again then start the transfer process from the tivo bolt or romio you want to preserve the recordings from before you remove the hard drive,

    then once you have verified all recordings transfered sucessfully and completely, then remove the hard drive from the bolt or the other romio, then perform the rollback procedure on the other romio or bolt then remove that hard drive from the device you transfered the recordings from install 8tb drive let it auto format then remove drive let mffs reformator reformat the drive then install in romio or bolt, then transfer the recordings back to the device you installed the 8tb drive in that you rolled back. Then you can reuograde the romio back to hydra before you put your 8tb drive back and the settings are still their.

    But if you want to permantely The romio you mentioned with the 8tb drive then you need to back up your settings and recordings first before you permantely rollback the romio you referenced.

    And just another tidbit I discovered romios and bolts running hydra do to a bad software update seems to prematurely wear out the hard drives in romios and bolts, as when the devices are in standby they keep running at full speed instead of cooling down in standby like they do with romios and bolts running te3.

    In other words at this point if you are planning rollbacks I recommend replacing the hard drives with western digital reds if they are up to 3 terribytes, a nd if going bigger using western digital purple drives.

    Finnaly once you have rollbacked all your other tivos then permantely rollback the tivo you referenced and replace the hard drive with a new 8tb drive then wipe the other 8tb and then you can use it to regularly back up recordings from you other tivos.

    Hope that answers your question

    And remember swapping hard drives back and forth and going back and fourth temporarily only works with romios not bolts.

    But to clarify the rollback method also works on bolts, but with bolts you cannot swap hard drives back and forth like romios, without losing all your settings or recordings

    Bottom line is at this time I recomend getting out of running any bolt or romio in hydra due to what I referenced above. Concerning hydra prematurely wears out hard drives,

    And one other thing hydra in bolts also can fry out the power sata ports in them, and that is a whole other problem with it, but I have a 20 dollar fix if anyone encounters that issue, And also remember tivo py also works well if you need to use any additional methods of preservation, it works even better now that a software update was deployed to it.
     
    sliderbob likes this.
  6. sliderbob

    sliderbob Member

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    Mar 17, 2008
    Ogden, UT
    Thanks. I only have Roamios, not any Bolts. I have 1 Roamio with an 8tb Red Drive, 1 Roamio with a 2tb drive with a cable card and both are running Hydra. I don't want to lose any recordings on both and I definitely don't want to keep Hydra. How do I save my settings on my cablecard tivo so it won't need repairing...I don't even think Comcast does it anymore?
     
  7. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    I have Comcast also

    step one is on your romio with a 2 tb hard drive is you need to purchase 2 8 tb hard drives I recomend purchasing purple drives that are labeled purz also do you have the stock hard drives for any of your romios if so you will need to 1st install the 500 gig drive in if you really have the 500 gig drive, and once you have purchased 2 new 8tb purple drives,

    Next you need to install the 500 gig in your romio with the 2tb drive and first perform the rollback procedure on that device. Then remove the 500 gig drive, then install the new 8tb drive in let it auto format then remove and using mffs reformator hook up the 8tb hard drive to your computer let it reformat the drive then install back in to your 2tb romio and then begin the process of transfering all your recordings and reseting up all your streaming apps streaming movies etc, which now creates a back up and source drive of your 8tb romio downstairs as you can once again use the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly function.

    Once that is complete and everything is setup on the 8tb drive on your romio that normally has a 2 tb drive. And your 8tb romio is backed up,.
    Now remove the 8tb drive from the romio you used to create a back and install back in it the 500 gig and reupgrade on that drive back into the hydra platform. Then reinstall the 2tb drive into the romio you used to back up your 8 tb romio,Once that is complete now go through of using your downstairs romio the same process if you still have the second stock drive and start backing up all your settings and recordings etc using the regular 8tb romio, but with the 8tb hard drive which you can now wipe using western digital data lifeguard utility also don't forget to install on your computer tivo py as it can fix fragmented files in case you have issues transfering back. Once you have wiped the 8tb red drive go through the auto format and the other steps outlined above and the permanent rollback is complete and begin backing up and preserving everything from your 2tb drive from the other romio, once that is complete, remove the 8tb red drive from the romio,

    now install in the 2tb romio the 500 gig drive rollback again but this time it is a permanent rollback and reinstall the purple drive you used to back up your your 8tb romio and once you have installed your new 8tb drive in the 8tb romio, now you can begin restoring everything to your first romio, and once complete you can wipe the one purple drive go through the process again and begin restoring your recordings to what was your 2 tb romio but now is also a 8tb romio using the red 8tb hard drive. Now once that is done you can breathe easy knowing your romios won't be subject to bad Hydra software patches anymore and the constant restarts once a week.

    As for Comcast they have a cable card self activation site that you can use to update the data id's each time you change the hard drives, but that can take each time you it up to 4hrs to complete.

    Hope that helps and remember you can if you like use your 8tb red drive for back ups in the future if you need it.
     
    sliderbob likes this.
  8. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    One other thing I forgot to mention the reason why you need to install tivo py is in case a recording gets stuck, and won't transfer due to fragmentation in the file tivo py can fix that because it rearranges the file, but you will need to once you install tivo py is make sure in the settings that the decrypt file using tivo Libre is unchecked that way all the guide and program info transfers with the file into your computer, as tivo py is the only software program that can pull a recording from a tivo running hydra into a computer, and will allow a transfer back once the downgrade is done, kttmg is another one but I am not sure how it works. But I know with kttmg you can back up any one passes you might have.
     
    sliderbob likes this.
  9. pj1983

    pj1983 Active Member

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    Dec 26, 2016
    BFE NoVa
    I wonder if something has changed with a recent TE4 update. I have a thrift store (eBay, perhaps) Roamio running TE4 v21.9.1. Executing the steps from page 1 results in a return to the "Repeat Guided Setup" menu choice before I could press "Select":

    For the Roamio:
    1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select (OK, command accepted)
    2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), (command accepted) now press Rewind 2 times, (immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding') Now press Select (not Enter) (didn't get to this step)
    3.) Roamio will immediately go to that right arrow screen, then screen blank, then you'll get a message letting you know that the rollback process has begun (didn't get to this step)
     
  10. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    I did my rollbacks 2 months ago. I did help then pressed the repeat guided setup pressed thumbs down 2 times not 3, then pressed rewind twice, then select, and it worked.

    Question did you back up your recordings, or did you not care
     
  11. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
     
  12. pj1983

    pj1983 Active Member

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    Dec 26, 2016
    BFE NoVa
    I just threw in a spare 1TB drive I had on the bench so I wasn't concerned about recordings. I did get the rollback process to start after a couple of forced connects (which upgraded it to 21.10.1something), a CDE, then a fresh guided setup. However, it aborts the rollback after a minute or so. The error message claims that network connectivity might be to blame. I've run all the usual network tests and it passes without issue. I also moved it to a port on my gateway router, same problem with the rollback abort.

    The only reason I can think of at this point for the error is that the unit doesn't have active service.
     
  13. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    Did you run a full hard drive erase on the 1tb drive, first and not a quick erase before attempting the rollback and did you check the account info screen that will say if the service is active, but romios can be rolled back, but romio Otas might be an issue not sure and vox bolts can not be rolled back.

    Another thing to try if it still does not work is to purchase a new 1tb or 3tb western digital red drive, then attempt the rollback again.

    If it were me I would go with the 3tb unless you wanted to go bigger and use mffs reformattor, but 6 and 8tb drives get considerably more expensive and are more worth it once you have completed successfully the rollback from hydra.

    Me I keep a very specific red 3tb drive in case I need to rollback and do a full erase after I did.my rollbacks which involved a romio and 2 bolts.

    Right now I have moved on to a much more complicated tivo project involving tivo py and cleaning up defragmented series 4 recordings ans a 6tb drive so I can pull all recordings from a 6tb green drive from my romio.

    And back up to my series 4, then send back to a brand new 8tb drive in my romio, as I do weekly back ups for both of my bolts in case something goes wrong.

    That's the other thing about older recordings from 2013 and romios when they first came out and the series 4, in the series 4s especially on the 500 gig drives the recordings got quickly very fragmented.
     
  14. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    Also when tivos are running Hydra recordings more easily become fragmented which is bad.
     
  15. mom2jel

    mom2jel New Member

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    Jun 20, 2006
    Minnesota
    Currently experiencing this.
    I joined a TiVo Beta program and realized that the new interface doesn't allow any "back" or previous screen options (once you make a choice and move to a screen, you need to hit the TiVo button and start over on the menu screen again).
    I requested that my box be removed from the Beta program last week. I have tried "Reset to Defaults/Clear & Delete Everything" several times; tried the directions here and end up with the same effing program (version 21.10.2v13-846-6-846)

    Any idea's how to get back the standard menu?
     
  16. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    I know the software is built into the motherboard with the romios and newer tivos,

    first I would get all recordings transfered into a computer you can do that with tivo py, not sure if kttmg will allow a transfer into a computer on tivos running te4.

    Next after that step is completed and you have backed up all one passes using kttmg and wrote down all movies and tivo shows that are streaming.

    Then you need to purchase a new western digital red or purple drive,

    I recomend getting a 3tb size drive which the romio will auto format up to that size.

    Then after going through the process of guided setup again then go attempt the rollback procedure.

    One other thing the clear and delete cycle and rolling back often will not work if you installed a hard drive bigger than a 3tb drive in your romio such as a 4tb 6tb or 8tb drive reformatted using mffs reformator.

    That's why I recomend using a brand new or stock hard drive that's been completely erased in a 3 tb or smaller size to perform any rollback procedures.

    You are going to lose all settings and recordings anyway, if you intend the rollback to be permanent.
     
  17. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    I see you got it used, so that helps you can skip the backing up recordings then,

    What romio model is it

    Is it a pro, plus or regular romio.

    Either way if it is a hard drive 3 tbs and under you have 2 options.

    You can purchase a new hard drive, or you after removing the drive download and run the western digital data lifeguard utilities with a quick or full drive erase,

    If the full drive erase won't work then you need to format the drive in windows after doing a quick erase and use a hard drive bleacher program like Norton utilities then run the full drive erase again.

    Then reinstall hard drive in the romio let it auto format go through guided setup then perform the rollback procedure.

    Tivos can be very finicky if the sectors in the hard drive don't have clean sectors.

    I also know that te4 causes a lot of sector wear in the hard drives.

    But you basically need to zero out all sectors out on the hard drive and bleach the hard drive before you can attempt the rollback procedure.

    In my case I zeroed out all my sectors on a special wd red drive that I used specifically to roll back my romio and my one bolt plus,

    And my upstairs bolt.

    I had to do it this way because I knew it would not work on the 6tb drive I installed in my romio and the same with my one bolt.
     
  18. mom2jel

    mom2jel New Member

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    Jun 20, 2006
    Minnesota
    Just to be clear... currently when I try the rollback, my experience is the same as pj1983 said:
    1.) Go into Menu- Help- Reset to Defaults- Repeat Guided Setup- Select (command accepted)
    2.) Press Thumbs Down 2 times (NOT 3!), (command accepted) now press Rewind 2 times, (immediate return to "Repeat Guided Setup" with a 'ding') (screen just refreshes and nothing else happens)

    Installing a new WD Purple 1TB-3TB hard drive, letting my Roamio format it, then trying the rollback is supposed to work?
     
  19. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    It should you can use a red drive also but not the red plus.

    I have noticed lately that my tivos have acted very finicky,

    One of the reasons I downgraded was because in te4 it was when the tivo was in standby the hard drive was not cooling down to a Luke warm tempeture.

    Another reason was the software updates was slowing down the system and making my tivos act finicky.

    Hydra ruined my sata power port in my one tivo bolt.

    I was having trouble rolling that back, at first. As my desktop drive would not power up.

    I had to plug my stock drive back in just to get that device rolled back.

    But after that the power sata port would not work period. I ended up solving the issue by using the power sata from my USB adapter and powering it from an electrical outlet, to my 8tb hard drive.

    Than running a short data sata cable into the motherboard and connecting to my 8tb hard drive and things work fine now, until I can send the unit off to weakknees at some point to repair the power sata port.
     
  20. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Aug 18, 2017
    The reason I am mentioning this is because with hydra or te4 it now runs a hard drive check, and that is part of what is causing the issues such as frying out power sata ports in tivo bolts and newer. And causing issues with not bieng able to rollback.

    You have to remember if the hard drive is old that can cause issues.

    The main thing is you need to perform the rollback immediately after coming through guided setup.

    Once you get that complete then you can decide things like installing a 4 6 or 8tb red or purple drive that has been reformatted using mffs reformator also available in the tivo community. And things should then go more smoothly.
     

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