How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by BadCommand, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Thats is another reason why I recomend downgrading romios back to the classic platform and leaving them running the classic interface if you have bolts or newer tivos running on hydra, to simplify what I am saying is if you are going to run any tivos on hydra you should have at least one tivo running the classic platform. so if anything goes wrong with the other tivos you can back up the recordings from the other tivos, and restore them later if needed. Also like you ,I do use my bolts for a lot more streaming these days vs recording, and with the bolts the hydra system does work better for streaming services with the picture quality vs the classic platform, but with the romios certain streaming apps like Amazon prime,and Hulu, and vudu, do not work well at all with romios running hydra, and with my romio loading Amazon prime would cause the romio to restart often. Also I have Comcast and I noticed the picture quality looked crappy on romios running hydra, but with my bolts the picture quality looks greatly improved running hydra, but about once or twice a month, if I load Hulu on my bolts the screen goes blank and Hulu will not load or says playback failure and I have to restart the bolt to get Hulu to work correctly, with sometimes even having to unplug my bolt just to restart it.
     
  2. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Still has not happened with bringing back the functionality in hydra vs classic platform referenced above and it is 2020, I am almost their where I can permanetely revert my romio back to the classic platform, I am finishing using a series 4 tivo to get the rest of my recordings backed up, from my romio, and then I am going to use my original hard drive to revert back and see if my recordings stay intact on my regular hard drive in my romio pro, as I believe with romios you only lose your settings and recordings on the hard drive you perform the roll back procedure on, if everything goes smoothly and the recordings and settings are intact on my 6tb drive, then I will post and let this forum know,

    With bolts you have to transfer and back up all recordings before you perform any roll back procedures or even disconnect any hard drives as it will reformat, but with bolts you can copy and expand to a bigger hard drive without losing recordings or settings, but if you plug in the original hard drive you lose everything on both drives, with romios you can swap different hard drives back and forth without losing recordings or settings on the different hard drives, without it trying to auto format like the bolts, and thats where romios are great you can stick any hard drive in it up to 3tbs and it will auto format them, anything bigger you need to use mffs tools 3.2 or mffs reformator which works on drives up to 8tbs, which means once you revert your romio back permantely you can create multiple backups on other tivos including bolts and then revert them and transfer recordings back directly, in case their are glitches with tivo py transfering the recordings in, I find tivo desktop plus works best transfering recordings in but only works now with classic platform, and then using tivo py which shares the folder with tivo desktop and then allows the transfer back of any recordings to any tivo running the classic platform and not hydra.
    Hopes info helps
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  4. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Question first is the bolt you mentioned a bolt vox that can not be downgraded or is it a bolt that came with the classic platform, or te3 if that is the case you need to downgrade that bolt back to te3 or the classic platform then proceed with the downgrade instructions for the tivo mini unless it is a newer mini that came preloaded with te4.

    In my case I have not used my mini since 2014, as it gave me issues when it was connected to my romio pro after a software update, so I brought my series 4 premier tivo out of retirement, and since then it has been a lifesaver when dealing with all the issues since hydra came out with preserving and backing up recordings and transfering them when everything else failed, but now I am working on finishing up a few things and testing a way to downgrade my romio without losing the recordings or settings on the regular drive I use, but with bolts this will not work, also if you can downgrade the specific bolt you mentioned, don't forget to back up or transfer any recordings you want to keep directly into any tivos running te3 or the classic platform, and if you do have tivo desktop use that to transfer any recordings into your computer and then use tivo py to transfer back once you have completed any downgrades.
     
  5. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Also 1 other note tivo desktop only works now for transfering recordings in on tivos running te3 or the classic platform, not the hydra system since January of 2020, due to tivo not renewing the certificates to allow that.
     
  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The referenced thread involves inability to downgrade older A92/A93 Minis, not DVRs.
     
  7. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Understand that but if the mini is an older mini it should be able to connect to a downgraded tivo, since it would have connected with no issues to dvrs running the classic platform, previosely, thats why I asked if the referenced bolt you mentioned that the mini still works with is a bolt, that can be downgraded, if it cannot be downgraded that might be part of what is causing the issue you referenced,

    And just for a point of reference if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra or te4, than that can not be downgraded, so for a point of reference any bolts labeled bolt vox cannot be downgraded because it came preloaded already with hydra or te4, and edge dvrs are the same, thats why I will never buy any tivo after the the original bolts. And for a reference point, if the bolt or bolt + has the label bolt vox, then that could be part of the issue, as they came already running the hydra platform, from the factory, which started in 2018. Any bolt manufactured prior to 2018 came still running the classic blue screen platform, and can be downgraded.

    Anyway I hoped I was able to help you try and figure out what is causing you to have trouble downgrading the particular mini you referenced, because you should be able to get it downgraded, but in order to do that you need to first connect it to a tivo running the older classic platform and then follow the instructions for downgrading a mini. Referenced in the first part of this forum, as it should work if you connect back into a tivo running the classic platform.
     
  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Indeed. And the inability to do so is the root of the referenced thread.

    I’ve only posted the reference here as a warning/heads-up to those who may be looking to rollback a DVR to TE3, and expecting any associated A92/A93 Minis running TE4 to follow. Do with this info what ye may.
     
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  9. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    One other idea you may want to try to try and get your mini to connect to one of your dvrs running the classic platform and then allow the downgrade,is to unplug the bolt you referenced from the electrical outlet first, then try and see if the mini will then allow you to downgrade it and connect it to the tivo you want, I think their is a conflict where the mini keeps trying to connect to the bolt you referenced running hydra because that is what it has been connected too, downgrade,

    that is causing a conflict, then go through the downgrade procedure for minis, and once you have sucessfully connected it to the tivo you want, then plug the bolt running hydra back in,

    but by temporarily taking that particular dvr out of the equation then at least you can work on getting the mini to connect to the tivo you want to without the tivo running hydra causing a conflict, and thats why I think you are getting the cannot be downgraded error,

    because if that particular bolt came preloaded with hydra from the factory then that bolt can not be downgraded, and if the mini is still connecting to that bolts software that is what is most likely causing the issue you are experiencing, again I have not used my mini since 2014, but if I remember correctly minis do not actaully have any physical software in them, it is all based on a network connection to a host tivo dvr.

    I hope this step I outlined helps you resolve the trouble you are experiencing, so you can get the mini to once again work the way you want it too.
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I appreciate the help, truly, but I’m not in need of any. I don’t have any devices currently suffering from the problem.

    But I don’t think you understand the problem described in the referenced thread. The Minis are unable to downgrade.
     
  11. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Gotcha then if you are, you should post what I just posted about unplugging any devices running hydra first,if you are attempting to reconnect a mini into a tivo running the classic platform
    but my big project right now is finishing up my test of an experiment with my romio pro and downgraded it permantely back to te3 or classic platform without losing any recordings or settings on my normal hard drive, which if it goes the way I think it will, will be a big help and may be a faster solution vs the hours it can take to move and transfer recordings, but I caution it will only work with romios, and it involves temporary swapping hard drives in it, and letting the romio auto format the different hard drive going through guided setup and then performing the downgrade procedure.

    Then putting the normal hard drive back in And the settings on that drive and programs should still be their, but I need to finish testing it before I can 100 percent say yes to that method, and even with using that method I still recomend tranfering all recordings first to another tivo, or computer.
     
  12. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Is this actually the case?

    I’m aware that the BOLT OTA and all EDGE models are TE4-only, but had not ever heard of any “as shipped” limitation for other BOLT models.
     
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I’ll leave that to you, if you wish. But I’d urge you to give the thread a read before doing so.
     
  15. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    Bolt vox models have that limitation if they were manufactured past a certain point in 2018 I think around March or so.
     
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  16. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    I have been and one of the issues that has been discussed on this thread is the losing all my recordings especially in the early posts, I know with bolts it won't work the swapping hard drives thing like I am doing, I actaully discovered this thread after tivo online would not work with me needing to transfer recordings temporararely from my series 4 into my romio and tivo online was not working even after I stuck a 3tb in my romio

    so I actaully performed the downgrade procedure once already with a 3tb hard drive and then I was able to transfer directly every recording from my series 4 to that drive creating a restore drive for my series 4, I then reupgraded my romio back to hydra, before reinstalling my 6tb drive back in my romio pro, so now that I have a bolt + I am just working on temporarily moving a set of recordings out of my romio temporarily in case if after I perform the downgrade procedure using my original hard drive, and then put my 6 tb back in with the dvr not running hydra test and see if everything was the way I left it.

    The one thing I have learned about tivo and tivos is they have made everything a mess since 2017 2018, and things have only gotten worse so when I am reading the posts and seeing all the frustrations people have I do understand, I have gone through it myself, and if something I figured out can help others in this thread accomplish what they want which is to go though downgraded their dvrs sucessfully and have things work the way they want and have all their settings and recordings at least in a state where once they downgrade, they can restore them without a ton of complications.

    People get frustrated when things don't work the way they should, and the lesson newer tivo users need to think about and even experienced ones need to learn is make back ups, even if tivo currently has lost sight of that, and made it more difficult to do that, you still find a way to take precautions, and still get things backed up period including recordings.
     
  17. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    “The thread” wasn’t *this* thread.

    It was this one:
     
  18. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    I am referring to the how to rollback a romio or mini from hydra, forum, which is this forum, and yes. several times it has been mentioned about losing all your recordings and settings, when you downgrade, and it has also been mentioned that tivo py for some has not worked in backing up recordings , and I know with romios you only lose recordings and or settings in most cases on the hard drive that is installed while the downgrade is being performed, but just as a precaution,you still should back up all your recordings, anyway, if you can before you swap any hard drives even in romios.

    Also that only works in romios where you can swap hard drives back and forth, without losing settings or recordings on the hard drives.
    I also know that with romios and newer tivos the software is built into the motherboard and not the hard drives itself,
    The series 4s and earlier tivos the software is actaully built into the hard drives, but with series 4 tivos you can like the romios swap hard drives back and forth and reinstall them without losing settings or recordings between the drives, but with earlier tivos it gets a bit more complicated.

    The point I am making is with romios it is possible to rollback the software without losing your recordings and settings, in most cases, but you have to be willing to remove the hard drive from the romio and temporarily install another hard drive in it, and then let it auto format repeat guided set up,, then follow the downgrade procedure instructions, and after that is complete, then you can remove the hard drive that was used just to perform the rollback, and reinstall the factory drive or whatever hard drive you normally use.

    And the good news is Once you do that on at least one romio, it becomes a lot easier to downgrade the rest of your tivo devices, including bolts because now you have a platform that makes it a lot easier to transfer your recordings, but also a lot easier to back up your recordings to a computer using a program like tivo desktop plus, or tivo py or both, without having to go through like with the series 4 tivos creating and using multiple images on different hard drives, just so you can transfer a recording out of a tivo running hydra, because tivo online won't transfer a recording directly, or a tivo running hydra won't let you at least transfer a recording into your computer because tivo did not want to renew their certificates for tivo desktop plus, and so now it only works on tivos not running hydra, and then need tivo py to restore the feature of transfering a recording back to at least any tivo that runs on the classic platform.

    That is my point why doing the temporarily swapping hard drives in at least one romio to perform a rollback because that starts the process of making things easier to then do what needs to be done as precautions before performing roll back procedures on other romios or bolts.
     
  19. ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    Have you actually done this successfully? I always assumed that changes in the database schema between TE4 and TE3 were the reason that a rollback wipes everything.
     
  20. gabrielstern

    gabrielstern Member

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    As I have previosely mentioned in several posts on this forum is that after bieng very frustrated I had done this procedure in my romio pro which I have owned since 2013, and actaully pulled out my 6tb mffs reformated drive and temporarily stuck a 3tb red drive in it back in September to pull recordings from my series 4 TV as I needed to reimage the drive as the software became corrupted, and tivo online was not working transfering the recordings to my romio or bolt. And even after I stuck a 3tb drive in my romio the software was still in hydra, and I still could not get the recordings transfered.

    So I performed the rollback procedure And was able to then using the good old fashioned transfer a recording directly feature, then I was able to sucessfully transfer every recording while creating a restore drive for my series 4.

    After I sucessfully did that while the 3tb was still in my romio, I then reupgraded the interface back into hydra, before putting the 6tb drive back in my romio, and everything was still intact including all recordings and settings.

    I also once stuck my stock hard drive back in my romio after I first upgraded my romio to hydra back in 2018. Which I had not used since 2015 and all the settings were still intact. But showing in the hydra style graphics.

    So what I am testing now is to see if after I stick my stock 3tb drive back in which I have since wiped and then perform the rollback procedure is, but this time leave the interface in classic, before I stick my 6tb back in my romio and see if everything stays intact like before.

    But before I do that I am finishing up transfering some recordings into a 4tb drive that is a series 4 image drive, in case something goes wrong.

    But to answer your question the answer is yes. But before I post a definite complete yes, I need to finish up backing up some recordings that are still in my romio in case something goes wrong.

    Just remember what I said about romios vs bolts and newer, though you only lose recordings and settings on the drive that is in the romio,while the procedure is being performed, bolts I can not say that. At all because you will lose all recordings.

    Remember what I also said about series 4 tivos also in that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives and the settings and recordings between the different hard drives stay intact, but require separate images for each hard drive.

    And that romios have in common with series 4 that you can toggle back and forth between different hard drives without losing settings and recordings, but that the software is built into the motherboard and does not require software images on the hard drive, and that their is an auto format facility in them that works up to 3tbs or terabytes.

    With bolts and newer tivos you can not toggle back and forth between hard drives, though you can copy a drive and expand it using a program like mffs 3.2 tools, to a bigger drive, but if you then stick the original hard drive back in you lose your recordings and settings on both drives.

    I am almost finished with backing up my recordings from my romio in case something goes wrong or does not go smoothly, and should be done by Friday, then on Saturday I will perform the rollback procedure permantely on my romio using my stock 3tb drive, and then I will reinstall my 6tb drive in it.

    Luckily I have a bolt + that most of the recordings that were on my romio is now transfered to and running hydra. So I can now safely verify and perform this procedure on my romio permantely
     

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