How Long Before TiVo Drops Flash?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by atmuscarella, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. Aug 5, 2011 #1 of 91

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY


    So it appears even Adobe sees the handwriting on the wall when it comes to Flash, with the release of Adobe Edge which is a HTML 5 design tool.

    1. Will TiVo smarten up and move to HTML 5?
    2. Can the Premiere's UI be converted to a HTML 5 based UI?
    3. Or will TiVo and/or the Premiere be one of the last companies/devices to still be using Flash in a few years?
    TiVo heal thy self - move off of Flash as soon as possible!!

    Thoughts anyone?

  2. Aug 5, 2011 #2 of 91

    nrc Cracker Soul

    Nov 17, 1999
    Living in a...
    There's no reason that TiVo should waste any time worrying about it right now. They have a tool set that creates flash and a client that renders flash. None of the reasons that's a bad idea for the web really apply to their own internal tool set.

    Maybe if they ever decide to open the platform for end user development it will be worth the effort to make that switch, but right now it's irrelevant. If they can't make their Flash client run fast enough they're not going to make HTML 5 run any faster.
  3. Aug 5, 2011 #3 of 91

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2003
    No, No, and Probably.

    Unfortunately, the Flash UI works "well enough". Tivo seems to have no development resources (can't even finish the HDUI), so any hope that they would re-implement the entire UI using a different technology is pretty futile.

    We might see a new product at some point that's non-Flash, but I just don't see it being backported to the Premiere.
  4. Aug 5, 2011 #4 of 91
    Troy J B

    Troy J B Lucky 200 Member

    Sep 27, 2003
    Sacramento, CA
    Fingers crossed the proposed 4-tuner Premiere Elite, will come with a complete HDUI. Preferably without Flash, but complete is more important.
  5. Aug 5, 2011 #5 of 91

    rahnbo Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Greenville, SC


    It took them a year to survey Premiere owners to find out if we want them to finish the HDUI. Based on that alone I see no hope for Tivo ever lifting a finger to do anything they don't have to do. If you own a Premiere you're stuck with what you have. Additionally, whose to say if they did get the wild idea to actually do something they deemed beneficial for us they wouldn't make it 10x worse than it already is?
  6. Aug 5, 2011 #6 of 91

    Fofer Bo55man69

    Oct 29, 2000
    The decision to make the HDUI and it's main menus completely dependent on a solid internet connection -- to the point that the whole interface may not even boot properly without one -- was a boneheaded one.

    I don't care what programming language the UI is in. It should just work, be fast, and work without any Internet connection if need be.
  7. Aug 5, 2011 #7 of 91

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    Is that what the problem is?
    I just moved my new Premiere to it's home in the family room after initially setting it up in the office. I am waiting on UPS to deliver my wireless bridge and I cannot access any menus, recordings or even change the HD UI back to SD. This is just retarded. So if I have the UI set to HD and temporarily lose my internet connection, is the Tivo neutered until internet returns?
  8. Aug 5, 2011 #8 of 91

    lafos Well-Known Member

    Nov 7, 2004
    Sioux Falls, SD
    I think TiVo could set higher priorities. Streaming comes to mind. Getting the current system operationally stable would be urgent, and I don't think flash vs. HTML5 would address some of the behaviors I've experienced.
  9. Aug 5, 2011 #9 of 91

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    Jan 17, 2002
    On the other hand none of those problems showed up in testing...

    ....with a 45mbs Internet link...

    ... and as many as 5 shows in the My Shows list....

    ...and 4 Season Passes.

    Wait. What?
  10. dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

    Jul 6, 2002

    In a lot of ways Tivo has moved to other arenas, the stand alone user is no longer a priority, we don't matter to them anymore, and unlike many folks, I'm not in denial about that. We're their POC and test bed before they offer something to the MSOs.
  11. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2006
    Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, pause, pause will switch to SD UI without having to go through menus at which point you don't need internet connection like the stupid HDUI requires.
  12. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    Many thanks for that Tip.

    UPS showed up and my Tivo is now reconnected to the network.
  13. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    I think you are confusing flash for the web with the flash platform TiVo is utilizing. HTML5 would not change anything since you still need a rendering engine. AFAIK there aren't any low power chips than can process HTML5 in the hardware like TiVo does for flash.
  14. dkraft

    dkraft Member

    Dec 20, 2004
    I just came back to Tivo from DirecTv after 8 years. I am not impressed with the Tivo UI. I would have thought the Tivo UI would be better.

    Now the IPAD and IPhone app is great. If they could just get the UI of the IPAD on the Tivo it would look great..

    I read where the Apps where crashing a lot but I have not had any major problems.
  15. turbobozz

    turbobozz New Member

    Sep 21, 2006
    I believe the S4 platform "CPU" has flash accelerators.
    I doubt they could effectively move away from the stagecraft platform for the HDUI even if they wanted to.
  16. RangerOne

    RangerOne The Hub

    Dec 30, 2006
    And let's not forget that one of the cores on the Premiere is not even active yet. There's still a lot of horsepower they could tap into.
  17. Sapphire

    Sapphire Xtal substance

    Sep 9, 2002
    Adobe isn't seeing any handwriting on the wall. The rise of Android and other non-Apple technologies especially means that Flash has a strong user base for some time to come.

    There's also the h.264 patent issue with free software browsers such as firefox. Google has also put its bets on webm instead of h.264. Chrome now has more users than firefox in some places including an increasing number of Apple Mac users. Chrome is within 6% of taking the lead over firefox worldwide.

    As much as some people hate it, Flash is the only standard which is a widespread, uniform standard.

    Flash is not going away.
  18. nrc

    nrc Cracker Soul

    Nov 17, 1999
    Living in a...
    This is largely irrelevant to the TiVo question, but the real question vis-a-vis the wider web market is how long is "some time to come?" Once HTML5 support becomes widespread the only reason to select Flash over HTML5 is the quality of the development stack. Given that, if Adobe themselves are building tools that compose HTML5, that sounds like "handwriting on the wall".

    Not sure how the Chrome comments make a case for any kind of long term future for Flash. Chrome is furthest along with HTML5 compliance and they are mainly taking share from IE. In fact, I would argue that Flash's useful lifespan is directly tied to how long IE can maintain market share while dragging their feet on HTML5/CSS3 compliance.
  19. Sapphire

    Sapphire Xtal substance

    Sep 9, 2002
    No, it's called making money.

    HTML5 as a full replacement for Flash depends partially on the <video> tag. As it is, a huge chunk of the browser marketplace does not support h.264 out of the box, but they support Flash. So the market is largely fractured.

    h.264 is patent encumbered and can't really be incorporated in any free software products such as Firefox or Chromium, despite h.264 licensors saying "trust us!" that it will be available for end users to play videos for no charge. That's not the point, the point is free speech, not beer.

    Trust me, Google has the power to stop h.264 dead in its tracks. All it has to do is offer WebM for free and kill off h.264 from Android. AFAIK the only reason h.264 is still there is because of hardware acceleration.

    On most computers, HTML5 is a bigger CPU hog than Flash. The only place where Flash was more of a CPU hog was on the Mac platform. One has to wonder why.

    "The rumors of Flash's death are greatly exaggerated."
  20. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    It figures this thread would turn into a HTML5 vs Flash even though that has little to do with the development environment that TiVo uses on the Premiere.

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