How long before a bigger official eSATA drive?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by singletb, Oct 23, 2007.

  1. The Weissman

    The Weissman New Member

    Dec 26, 2002


    A thought: if it is the drive, and not the enclosure, that identifies the "My DVR Expander" as the TiVo-verified solution, then isn't it possible to buy two of those drives (sans enclosure), and put them into a single eSATA enclosure for a full 1 TB expansion? (For example, this enclosure: and a couple of 500 GB drives from DVR Expanders.)

  2. vman41

    vman41 Omega Consumer

    Jun 18, 2002
    The device your link points to doesn't have eSATA, you can only connect to the host via USB or firewire. Any enclosure that bind together two drives to look as one is going to its own firmware to handle the host interface and not look like the constituent drives.
  3. Mars Rocket

    Mars Rocket Loosely wound

    Mar 24, 2000
    Sinnoh region
    I was going to post something similar. Touting the 600 hours of basic quality SD programming storage is ridiculous and borders on insulting. People don't buy S3 units to store SD programming on them, and even if they did nobody would be satisfied with basic quality on an HD display (unless you were just after the audio, or were using it as a surveillance system or something like that.)
  4. TokyoShoe

    TokyoShoe Frustrated TiVoHD'er

    Jul 27, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    I've been a member of forum for more than few months now, and I've been posting on one thing or another on and off. (I tried to get Galleon to work for a bit before anyone actually mentioned point blank that TTG/MRV was enabled for TivoHD's. My bad, wasted a bit of time on that.

    My "early adopter" point is not in comparison to the rest of the Tivo Nation, you can't use S3's as direct timeline comparisons to TivoHD. Features comparisons, sure... even quality comparisons or speed/functionality comparisons.

    Maybe I should rephrase that as "TivoHD Early Adopter"? In terms of "TivoHD Early Adopter" it's going to be anyone who bought the TivoHD units very early on, and prepared for future use and possible expansion as quick as they could. Since they were "TivoHD Early Adopters" the only nearest benchmark for functionality would be the rest of the Series3's. We check with the Series3 users, see that they have eSATA capabilities that are enabled via an "undocumented functionality". Now, extensive research regarding all documentation, as well as any "official positions" from Tivo on this "undocumented functionality" never yields comments from Tivo stating said "undocumented functionality" is infact an "illegal move on the part of the users". They just don't say anything about it.

    If they leave a function in, documented or not, and never patch it out for SUCH a long duration of time.. the user community is going to make assumptions regarding that functionality and just what future intent or possibilities are. This is going to especially happen a lot with PR policies like they have at Tivo.. not commenting on so many thinks, never listing specific patch notes or future intentions of features development.

    S3's had eSATA that was could be enabled through "some means". A means left in for quite a long time, never condemned by Tivo.. just never ENDORSED by Tivo. If a new consumer comes into this equation and does what research he can, he's going to end up making the assumption that this feature is going to be left in for the S3's long term. Comparing equipment on the regular S3 to the TivoHD, and factoring in that the TivoHD is in fact a S3-"lite" type model, AND the fact that TivoHD has an eSATA also. Combine all this, it's very easy to come to the conclusion that this feature will eventually be just as functional with TivoHD's.

    Heck I was told numerous times by folks on THESE forums that the eSATA port was going to get enabled on TivoHD's when TTG/MRV got enabled, because the features were all tied together. (Yes these people are NOT "official Tivo employees / support", I get that and am not trying to BLAME them for anything.)

    And yes I'm griping about the massively bad choice regarding this entire stupidity of. Yes I'm a tad "miffed" regarding having purchased a TivoHD AND an external eSATA drive, having been told by forum members here specific feature expectations.. and then have Tivo Inc. turn around that totally change the functionality of those features AGAINST what I was previously told. Yes I am a "bit upset" regarding the requirements of having to buy a NEW eSATA drive of their "specific brand".

    Biggest thing I'm miffed about? The "return period" on my TivoHD ran out a month go.

    But here's the final point.. the final gist of this entire monstrosity of a rambling post.

    If you're sick of me.. just ignore me? It's what everyone else does, seems to work for them just fine too. Even better, let me cuss and whine until I get myself banned from the boards! Then you are rid of me! Just remember yours is not the only perspective or opinion here. Yours is not the "right way to see things". And you don't actually own OR run these boards.
  5. EVizzle

    EVizzle ^^MacGvyer^^

    Feb 13, 2005
    St. Paul, MN


    If you are mad that your drive isn't supported, plug it into a computer and tivotogo it and it will work just fine.

    You knew this feature wasn't going to be supported until November, so you really should have planned ahead and returned your Tivo and re-bought it so you could test out its functionality to your liking.

    If you bought your Tivo and HDD with some sort of documentation saying they would officially work, and it did not, then you have a fair complaint.

    We aren't out to get you, many of us have been waiting excitedly for these features for a long time, but you just need to tone it down a bit. Tivo didn't sell you the wrong items, not did the tivocommunitystore for that matter.
  6. TokyoShoe

    TokyoShoe Frustrated TiVoHD'er

    Jul 27, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Trust me, I get it. I bought the TivoHD, the documentation mentions the eSATA port "intended for future use", thought it doesn't implicitly state what / when / where / why / how. Instead I read up, get suggestions from this community that I then have to make the choice to act upon. Was it a mistake not to return the TivoHD at the end of the first thirty days? Might have been, yes. Right now, I think I would pin the bigger misplacement of faith in the choice to purchase an eSATA drive before getting the final "official word" from Tivo (that went against almost everyone's expectations, I'd wager).

    I still think it's okay to be frustrated with Tivo, tho, when they roll out a feature that flys against customer expectations. I still don't see why they don't just enable the "unsupported eSATA device" setup for TivoHD's, just like they did for Series 3's. Yes I get that it's grandfathered, but they state that they grandfathered in Series 3's specifically to avoid riots.

    Don't you think that would mean that the TivoHD users might riot ALSO for not getting that same loophole capability? I really don't see any logic reason for NOT enabling unsupported eSATA device bonding, especially since they... (wait for it)...don't have to support the unsupported?
  7. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    Um...because you can buy a single 1TB HDD and install it internally for less? Just a thought. ;)
  8. HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    This whole idea of support:

    What kind of support are people looking for anyway? I mean if you use the TiVo DVR Expander and it fails, what is TiVo going to do for you besides keep you on hold when you call? Nothing in the world will get your recordings back. If the drive(s) are under warranty, that's the same deal as if Joe's Bargain HDD dies under warranty.

    I'm not talking here about the convenience of PnP. That I understand a desire for.

    But in terms of support, what practical help or restitution can be expected if something goes wrong? Who's going to prove your motherboard blew because of a faulty DVR Expander, for example? For that matter, how long is the warranty period anyway?
  9. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    :eek: OMG, you just don't get it do you? We heard your whining in the first twenty-five posts about the same thing. You're worse than a screaming baby on a long haul flight! Get a dog. Move on!

    But before you do, here's a handy video that I know you'll like...make sure you have your speakers on. ;)

  10. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2006
    I still don't get the fascination of HUGE drives attached to Tivo. Keeping a bunch of stuff on there clutters things up (Tivo has very limited organizing capabilities) and slows down the software doesn't it (can't imagine bringing up Now Playing List with 100s of shows)? If you build up a whole bunch of stuff to watch later then when will you ever get time to watch it? For me there's stuff to watch on TV pretty much year round so there's never dead time for me where I can catch up on old stuff. Now with the ability for many to offload programs to PCs I see even less urgency for bigger drives on the Tivos. I can see getting up to around 500GB or so but even adding 500GB to my existing 250GB internal would be way overkill for me especially since I already have 2 S3s to share the load. If you want to save a whole series then isn't it more convenient to store on a PC to have the ability to easily organize things as you want? Or just get the DVD set?
    So what's the main motivation for HUGE drives on 1 Tivo? Is it a pack rat thing? A man thing? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's crazy to be doing it, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it - I feel like I'm missing something here and left out of the party.
  11. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    Excellent points, one and all! :up:
  12. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    Good question, but there's a little Tim the Tool Man Taylor in every one of us me thinks. ;) We have about 150 shows saved up on our S3 and the menus are as speedy as ever...just takes forever to scroll through them all.

    As for me, I was waiting for TTG. Now a bunch of the shows will be moving off of TiVo and onto the PC, or DVD, etc. As soon as that bit of housekeeping is done I'm permanently removing the eSATA and popping in the 1TB internal drive I have here on my desk. I’ll drop the 500GB drive from the eSATA into our new TiVo HD and be done with it. That's enough real estate for us...for now anyway. :rolleyes:
  13. andrews777

    andrews777 Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Just because you can't imagine "hundreds of shows" doesn't mean others can't. Some of us have better imaginations. :)

    One of the reasons I want a lot of space is so I can have a choice when I do want to watch. I want to pick what I feel like watching, not the limited choices faced because I can only store a few hours of shows.

    Regarding the complainers about complaining: You don't have to "drink the kool-aide" to use/like a TivoHD. It is perfectly valid to have issues with the way Tivo has handled things. Any business today had better face up to the mass market of consumers and not just those consumers to whom it can do no wrong. Without good feedback from consumers Tivo will go bust, because it will no longer be meeting market demand.

    Even negative feedback should be widely sought to make the company's products more palatable to the public. Complaining about dissent is more likely to be harmful to the company as it can shut off valid concerns and limit their ability to get back to the main company.

  14. jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

    Nov 21, 2002
    There are two reasons that come to mind for me. First, it extends the TiVo mentality of never needing to watch live TV (save for live breaking news) even further. At any particular time I can have a weeks worth of movies available to suit whatever mood I might be in. I may not watch every one. I may start to watch one and realize I'm not interested but I have that option. It is like having a virtual video on demand system. It is particularly good for new season premieres of new shows. Just record everything and then decide at your leisure what might be true season pass material.

    And finally, there are certain shows that can be considered exemplary from an HD standpoint. Demonstration pieces if you will or things I like watching repeatedly like Planet Earth or Travels to the Edge . Anyone with a large collection of CDs or DVDs knows the inclination. It is nice to have excess space for such archives so that the more temporal regular use is not interefered with.

    The good thing about having the expansion option is that then each person can decide how useful the extra space would be to their viewing habits rather than being limited to the 250GB or less stock drive. Even a casual TV fan could very easily come up against hard limits with a stock TiVo HD. It is just a matter of degree. For some there is even a little bit of because it can be done motivation.
  15. robm15

    robm15 Member

    Feb 22, 2004
    Seattle, WA
    ROFL! That was the best educational video I have seen in years! And is very appropriate in this case. Thank you for the link.
  16. GaryD9

    GaryD9 Member

    Mar 1, 2002
    I can't NOT answer this...

    Previous to purchasing a TivoHD (and dropping DirectTv), I had a DirectTv HR10-250 with the internal drive upgraded to 750MB. My wife and I were always running out of space... Why?

    During the fall season, we'd record (in HD, of course) many different shows we had "less" interest in and just let them build up throughout the season. When the summer repeats season came, we still had the entire season of 3-4 shows to watch....

    I have children. 2 and 4. I have every single episode of dozens and dozens of childrens shows. I actually have more season passes for children's shows than I do of adult shows. They build up fast...

    We also have about 2 dozen various movies and other specials recorded. HD quality (even DTV's HD-Lite) is better than plain DVD (and I'm waiting for the industry to choose between HD-DVD or BlueRay before I invest in a new player.)

    My wife watches tons of various shows in the daytime that I have no part of. Things on HGTV, Lifetime, Oxygen, DIY, etc. I'm not sure what they are... only that they take up a few pages on the NPL.

    If you think the NPL can get slow now, you should have tried it before TiVo put in folders!

    I think that the point is that TiVo started as (and still is for many) a way to timeshift and to record 1-2 shows to watch later the same day or week. For others, it's become a video library.
  17. Lenonn

    Lenonn Active Member TCF Club

    May 30, 2004
    500 GB is just not big enough. I would wait for a 1 TB external drive, but now that I look at all the caveats with the external storage, I don't think I'm going this route anytime soon.
  18. Mars Rocket

    Mars Rocket Loosely wound

    Mar 24, 2000
    Sinnoh region

    Easy: Multiple viewers. My wife and I don't always watch the same shows, and we have three kids that also watch different stuff. So we could have 5 TiVos with medium-sized drives on them, or 1 TiVo with a HUGE drive on it. Problem solved.
  19. pjhartman

    pjhartman excitable boy

    Jan 21, 2002
    Omaha, NE
    No offense, but my family does not watch as much TV as your family.

    I'll agree that for those who want to store 1+ TB worth of shows on a TiVo, there should be a supported solution.
  20. flatcurve

    flatcurve New Member

    Sep 27, 2007
    Well, this is just a guess mostly, but maybe they're equating PnP ability to support... shot in the dark.

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