Hey Tivo!! All that Money I pay you no Alerts that the Game might delay recordings!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by audvidman, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Well-Known Member

    Mar 14, 2010


    Instead of all that crap the broadcasters air on their local stations multiplex, they could air delayed programming in its entirety to be easily recorded by DVR's. Kind of what ABC+ was before they dumped it for Living Well HD.
  2. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    According to Nielsen only around 40% of households have a DVR. So the majority of people do not have DVRs. So for recording they must either be using a VCR or DVD burner to watch the content from the local station. Or they watch it live or use a streaming service to cath it.
  3. Sadara

    Sadara huh?

    Sep 27, 2006
    Wichita, KS
    Just happened to catch that Terra Nova wasn't really Tera Nova but baseball (I'm not a fan). I had to record House to catch Terra Nova.
  4. dstoffa

    dstoffa Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    New York, NY
    Replays have an undocumented feature called "Sportsguard" and "Showguard", which had to be turned on using the Claw-foot portal.

    What did these do?

    Sportsguard and showguard would automatically pad the start and end of a show (or sporting event) the number of minutes you set it, provided that nothing else was scheduled to record. It may solve one problem, but not many problems on the same night.

    You can blame Heidi for all your sports-programming problems. NBC learned the hard way back in 1968. Ever since, sports programming rules the roost.

  5. dbenrosen

    dbenrosen New Member

    Sep 20, 2003
    New Jersey


    Consider these baseball games special one-offs. They ran late because of rain. My bigger complaint is the way CBS schedules Sunday nights. They KNOW the NFL games are going to end after 7pm (ET), and yet they continue to schedule their Sunday lineup to begin at 7pm. FOX corrected this a few years back. Why doesn't CBS do like FOX and schedule a post-game show to run until 8pm? If the games should end early, show previous episodes of some shows.
  6. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    Run overs like that help boost the ratings
  7. Scyber

    Scyber Former ReplayTV User

    Apr 25, 2002
    I've actually stopped recording Sunday night CBS shows b/c of the NFL overrun issues. It's just not worth the hassle.
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    I think the Sunday night CBS problem may have to do with time zones.

    (Which is why I wish TiVo had been invented on the East Coast by people with an East Coast mindset)

    The football game or golf match starts when it starts, regardless of what time it is where you (or I) are, and does not get shown on a 1 hour delay in the Central Time Zone, a 2 hour delay in the Mountain Time Zone, or a 3 hour delay in the Pacific Time Zone.

    This means CBS has the choice of probably starting 60 Minutes at 7PM local in at least 2 and maybe 3 of the 4 time zones, followed by the rest of the Sunday night schedule at the scheduled local times, and either starting late in the Eastern Time Zone, or not showing that week's episode of 60 Minutes at all in the Eastern Time Zone.

    Forgoing the 60 Minutes ad revenue for the entire Eastern Time Zone--New York, Boston, Washington, DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, Charleston, and a bunch of other places-- is probably not something they want to do if they can help it.
  9. dstoffa

    dstoffa Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    New York, NY
    Nope. It has to deal with money and pride.

    The early NFL Football games (the regional coverage games on FOX and CBS) are scheduled to start at 1 pm ET. The late games are either scheduled to start at 4:05 or 4:15pm ET, depending on which network is airing the doubleheader that week. Once upon a time, NFL games only ran 2.5 hours, and these games were scheduled to start at 1 pm and 4 pm ET, regardless of which network was showing the double header.

    With the increased costs in NFL TV rights, big media negotiated the right to insert additional commercials into the games, thereby extending their length. In the mid 90's, it was realized that the late games needed to be joined in progress, so big media again negotiated to push the start of the late games to 4:15 (for the doubleheader network, as the single-game networks could not show two games in one market).

    Enter the time zone issues.

    In the eastern and central time zones, network programming is shown 'live' at 7pm ET / 6pm ET on Sunday nights. In the Mountain Time Zone, it is delayed one hour. What is not known is if the local affiliate delays the start of network programming by one-hour, or simply delays the east coast feed by one hour. In the Pacific Time Zone, it starts at 7 pm PT. Over-runs have no bearing. That is why announcers always say, "60 minutes will begin right after the game, expect for those of you on the West Coast." This implies that the affiliates in Mountain Time are simply delaying the already delayed East Coast feed, but does not make sense in that they'd have to repeat the end of the game to do so.... Someone in Utah could help us out here... Maybe the Sunday night lineup is shown at its regularly scheduled time, and the affiliates are obligated to 'fill the gap' between the end of the game and the start of 60 minutes.

    Knowing well that the late game will finish no earlier than 7:30 pm ET, CBS chooses NOT to schedule 60 minutes for a 7:30 ET start. FOX however, as mentioned, will schedule a football wrap-up show to make up the slack and keep their prime-time schedule on schedule. The tradition of "60 minutes" at 7pm /6pm central is too big of a tradition to break for CBS, so they knowingly muck their Sunday night schedule. It's all about billing and money. They can effectively extend prime time billing rates by scheduling "60 minutes" to start at 7 pm Eastern/Pacific / 6 pm Central/Mountain, regardless.

    It would be impossible for a non-networked Tivo to know of any programming over-runs. And I am unsure how a networked Tivo would simply get a notice of such overrun unless it kept on polling some scheduling server.

    Who would be responsible for pushing such a scheduling update down the pipe? Who would pay for it? Would the ends justify the means?

    If you want to record your prime-time shows uninterrupted, subscribe to satellite and grab West Coast feeds...

  10. lew

    lew Well-Known Member

    Mar 12, 2002
    Pad your Sunday CBS shows by 30 minutes and you'll be OK most of the time. Pad them by 60 minutes and you'll be good to go. Absolutely no hassle.

    A PP already posted the theoretical solution. Tivo could use the closed caption data to determine when a sporting event ran long and when the following show ran long.

    Otherwise you're correct. CBS feels they can get more ad money, and better ratings for their Sunday shows if they leverage off the NFL audience. Why cut all (or part of) any Sunday show?

    Years ago CBS scheduled 60 minutes with 1 (sometimes 2) new stories and 1 (sometimes 2) repeats. An abbreviated version of 60 minutes would run in the Eastern time zone.

    CBS decided not to cut back their prime time schedule but rather extend it past 11p (Eastern Time Zone). Fox doesn't program as many prime time hours as the other networks. Cutting an hour off their Sunday schedule may not be that big a deal to them.

    I don't see the big problem. Watch live. Pad.
  11. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2001
    Not entirely true. While I've never seen CBS start a show on Sunday night more than 60 minutes late the few times a game has run over that badly they'll pull a show. So 60 minute pad is almost always good enough, but not always.

    If the show didn't air you need to manually intervine in order for the TiVo to record the skipped episode when it finally is shown.

    Even if they air it next week, the TiVo thinks it already recorded it and won't automatically record it again, 28-day rule.
    (unless the season pass was set to "All with Duplicates" which I suspect most people don't routinely use).
  12. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 TV Buff!

    Nov 17, 2006
    Precisely. Don't blame Tivo, blame the networks.
    Fox deliberately pads Sunday events for this very reason. They schedule a post-show before Simpsons, and I don't recall actually MISSING the start of Simpsons because of this.

    The rest of the networks are just trying to cram in as much pathetic broadcasting as they can.Not Tivo's fault, it's the network's fault.

    As for baseball, this is the argument we go through every year. Fox typically pulls shows about this time of year for this reason. They (also) typically skip pulling one day's worth of shows, but realizing this, will re-air those shows at a later date.
  13. audvidman

    audvidman New Member

    Jan 17, 2008
    All I really wanted was an alert from TiVo either from their on screen message or possibly a tweet or email that says " alert!! The President or major sporting event may disrupt your programming!" Dont forget we pay TiVo $$$ for programming.
  14. dstoffa

    dstoffa Member

    Dec 14, 2005
    New York, NY
    You do not pay Tivo for programming. You pay Tivo for a subscription to published television guide data, which is always subject to change. How is Tivo supposed to do this? It's a network programming issue, over which Tivo has no control, since they get all their guide data from TMS, and NOT the networks.

    If there is a market for such service (tweet, email notifications), then why don't you start a business?


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