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Help with the simplest Moca possible?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by igirl, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. Jul 7, 2018 #1 of 26
    igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Sarasota, FL
    We have a Roamio Plus with Lifetime that has had it's Ethernet input burned out, and doesn't show and Wifi Option in the network settings regardless of unplugging etc.

    The last hope to get program guide info is MoCa then, right?

    I don't want/don't need to run an entire MoCa network - all I want to do is get Ethernet out of my router 2 feet away from the Tivo - and convert it to cable and put it into a splitter (shared with the cable signal) on the Tivo Input.

    Can I do this? I emphasize all I need is the Tivo to phone home. Nothing else. No streaming or anything.

    I'm wondering if this is the right box?

    (One small possible wrinkle is we use/need a tuning adapter.)

    Is there any easier way - less expensive/faster/local parts readily available - or if this is all wrong - please help!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  2. Jul 7, 2018 #2 of 26
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    igirl likes this.
  3. Jul 7, 2018 #3 of 26
    igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Thanks - I saw that one in my search but wasn't sure since it said "Dual-Band Wireless Network Extender"... I'm probably going to get this one too and try both. (just in case)

    I have a handful of splitters lying around from various moves the cable installers coming and going. I'm hoping it's all just that simple. (Somewhere I think I even have a few POE filters but shouldn't need?)
     
  4. Jul 7, 2018 #4 of 26
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    A couple replies over in your other thread, here: Roamio Plus - no WiFi option in network settings

    If you go with the cheaper WCB3000N, lacking a RF pass-through port, you’ll need 2 2-way splitters (or a single 3-way, balanced or unbalanced is up to you based on signal needs) and 2 “PoE” MoCA filters (the 2nd to protect the TA from MoCA signals).

    edit: p.s. Similar to the following (w/ the MA pass-through approach described in the other thread):

    test - no MA pass-through.png test - w MA pass-through.png
    And @snerd's later suggestion w/ just 1 MoCA filter works, as well, to protect the TA from MoCA signals, but at the expense of a further-reduced signal level delivered to the DVR.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  5. Jul 7, 2018 #5 of 26
    snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    Or just one PoE and 2 2-way splitters:
    2-way #1: outputs to TA and (PoE on input of 2-way #2)
    2-way #2: outputs to MoCA adapter and Roamio
     
    igirl likes this.
  6. Jul 7, 2018 #6 of 26
    snerd

    snerd Active Member

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    Hooking up the WCB300N has already been described.

    If you go with the MM1000, hookup is really simple. Disconnect the coax from the Roamio and connect that Coax to the "Device" port of the MM1000. Connect a short coax cable from the "Network" port of the MM1000 to the Roamio. Connect an ethernet cable from the MM1000 to the router. Note that this connection only works if there are no other MoCA devices in play. MoCA signals are only on the coax that connects the MM1000 to the Roamio, so no PoE filter is required. I'm also assuming that the tuning adapter is already connected separately.
     
  7. Jul 7, 2018 #7 of 26
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Good alternative, and with even less signal loss enroute to the DVR. (Though, again, the DVR's MoCA hardware working remains a long-shot ... but it does need to be tested/verified.)

    test - w double pass-through.png
    edit: p.s. Though the following is closer to snerd's orig description:

    test - w MA pass-through alt.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  8. Jul 7, 2018 #8 of 26
    igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Sarasota, FL
    Thanks everyone - some of this is starting to make sense - and as soon as I get the MM1000 Monday (and WCB300N on Tuesday) I'll start trying out some of these setups. I found the extra parts I need - had them on hand.

    As noted - The whole thing is a total "Hail Mary" - just hoping for the best.

    Will post back with test results. Thanks again - the replies were all very helpful and I may keep the MoCa setup around regardless.



    IMG_2480.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  9. Jul 7, 2018 #9 of 26
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Note that the benefit of snerd's suggestion (i.e. directly connecting the DVR to the MM1000's "Network"/"In" port) is that any 2-way splitters used don't need to be MoCA-friendly, as well as removing all variables from the MoCA connection aside from the single coax cable used to connect the Roamio Plus to the MM1000.



    edit: Corrected MM1000 port assignment!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  10. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    What is missing from this thread but present in the other one is that the Roamio's Ethernet port is one of the known dead items and the whole point of going to MoCA was to see if the Roamio's MoCA might be able to get a MoCA / network connection as the guide data is currently running out.
    Since that is apparently the case, using the MM1000's coax out port will do nothing but insure that the MoCA will not work.
    PS. This is why it is a really bad idea to start multiple threads on the same topic....
     
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  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I believe snerd's connections should work.

    The OP only needs a MoCA connection between the MM1000 and the DVR, which is accomplished by connecting the DVR to the MM1000's "Network" port; the MM1000's "Device" port makes the connection up-stream, through which only sub-MoCA cable TV signals need travel, ensuring the DVR also receives the cable signals. It's not a traditional connection setup for a MoCA adapter, but then the OP's situation is not typical.

    edit: p.s. Note that I initially erroneously had typed '"Device"/"In" port' in my post that you'd quoted, but had corrected it to '"Network"/"In" port' ... apparently before you replied. (Though, to be fair, all the diagrams posted to the thread identify the Roamio Plus as "MoCA-client DVR," sans Ethernet connection.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
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  12. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    That satellite diplexer in your picture can replace a splitter and filter on your TA input.
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    In retrospect, keeping things as simple as possible... Since the critical question is whether the DVR can even connect as a MoCA client, simply connect the MM1000's or WCB3000N's coax "IN" port (the "Network" port) directly to the DVR's coax port ... without worrying about the cable TV signal or tuning adapter ... and then attempt to configure the DVR for a MoCA client connection.

    test - MoCa test only.png
    If the MoCA client connection works and the DVR has full network functionality, *then* take a look at the previous configuration options for getting everything working.
     
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  14. tapokata

    tapokata Active Member

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    Belts and suspenders, and for AFTER the above test, but I would add a POE filter on the "device" port of the MM1000. Typically, the "device" port lead continues the established drop from the coax plant to a non-MoCA set top box, TV, etc, so a POE is not necessary. That said, Snerd and KRK's elegant configuration leverage the "device" port in a different manner.

    On the bench, I was able to get a MoCA link between 2 MM1000's, cabled by 20' of RG6 coax from the "network" port on one ECB and the "device" port on the other. It wasn't an efficient link (the Tx Power rates were maxed at +3 dB), but it was allowing MoCA beacon and bi-direction data traffic to pass. It's not how the equipment is intended to operate, but the lesson from this is that I wouldn't risk stray MoCA frequencies that aren't intended to be there on the Coax plant.

    And as a reminder, the MoCA speed from the MM1000 will not really be relevant, as it will slow down to the speed of the Roamio Plus (I assume that's a MoCA 1.1 device). Not really a huge deal, just recognize that the versatile and cost efficient MM1000 is under-utilized in this role.
     
  15. igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Sarasota, FL
    Results - (I decided to just wait for the WCB3000N to arrive to keep the cost down)

    It's not looking good, but just to verify (as per KRK) I went RJ45 out of the cable modem direct into the WCB3000N #1 Port (Ethernet light is on) - then it's "coax in" direct into the Tivo, and headed over to the Network Settings/MoCa/Client/Auto/No Encryption

    Failed. (MoCa network problem) I'm not using a POE anywhere but fail is fail -

    Interestingly the Tivo has rebooted itself 3x while resting in this configuration and I expect it might keep doing this so I disconnected everything.

    Oh well. Looks like it's toast.

    At least I got some good news yesterday. Another big item that was hit was a high end iMac 4K Retina (also lost ethernet but nothing else was hurt - Wifi still works) - It's on Applecare so I'm getting a free replacement motherboard. I was shocked when they said it was covered! Small victories I guess.

    Thanks a ton to everyone who pitched in with help and advice - I really appreciate it. This has always been a great forum. I may use the MoCa ideas in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  16. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    I'm not clear about your modem/router. Are they two separate devices or a single device? If they're separate, connect the WCB to the router via RJ45, not directly to the modem because DHCP needs to give the WCB an IP address. If it doesn't get an address, it will use its default of 192.168.99.254 which probably won't be on the right subnet for everything to talk successfully. Failing that, try a full factory reset on the WCB. Could have some bogus config if it had ever been used before.
     
  17. igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Sarasota, FL
    I was going out of the modem - not a router - my mistake - so it gave me some false hope to try again... Repeating the test from the router output feed - same result - failed. This setup also made the Tivo Reboot itself again.

    I did a reset on the WCB3000N - it acted a little flakey and had to pull the power on it, but once back, same result. I could open the brand new MM1000 and repeat these tests, but really prefer to keep it intact for return purposes, unless you all think the Actiontecs aren't reliable enough to depend on for a test like this.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Your call, but one benefit of defiling the MM1000 packaging would be to do a simple coax direct-connect test between the two MoCA adapters to prove each is capable of a MoCA connection as currently configured. The coax/MoCA status LED lighting-up would indicate a successful MoCA connection.

    And with one MoCA adapter connected via Ethernet to your router LAN, you should be able to connect some other device (laptop, PC, etc) to the “remote” MoCA adapter’s Ethernet port to fully verify the network connection.

    (The MoCA adapters providing a network connection where the DVR could not would be further evidence the issue is with the DVR and not the MoCA adapter.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  19. mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Do this on your Tivo as well:

    Set up the MoCA network
    1. After completing Guided Setup, change the network type to MoCA:

    For devices running the TiVo Experience 4 (Software Version: 21.X.)

    TiVo Device Navigation Path (From Home)
    TiVo BOLT Series & Roamio Series
    MENU > NETWORK SETTINGS > CHANGE NETWORK SETTINGS > MoCA ON

    For devices running the previous User Interface or TiVo Experience 3 (Software version: 20.X.)

    TiVo Device Menu Path (From TiVo Central)
    TiVo BOLT Series, Roamio Series & Premiere Series with HDUI
    Settings & Messages > Network Settings > Change Network Settings > MoCA > Select Turn MoCA On
    • Select: Set Up as Bridge to create a MoCA network
    • Select: Set Up as Client to join an existing MoCA network
    Also make sure "Network Controller" is enabled on the WCB under advanced Moca settings when you go to the config page.
     
  20. igirl

    igirl Tivo and EyeTV User

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Sarasota, FL
    True, as it was in the simple test - the coax status light doesn't light up because it's only one way/not complete I believe.

    I see what you're saying - maybe worth a try. Currently however I'm out of Ethernet devices - they were all fried - but I now have a replacement Tivo arriving Thursday and will test once more at that time before returning anything.
     

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