Help with S3 drive update? Stuck on POWERING UP screen

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by WebG, Jul 15, 2011.

  1. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    Hi.

    Proud owner of an S2 and S3 for years and years. Many moons ago, followed the Hinsdale instructions to upgrade my failed S2 drive with no problem.

    So when I began to suspect that my S3 was acting up (stuttering, slow to switch menus, random reboot), I knew it was probably time to replace that drive too.

    Luckily, the new instructions/software using WinMFS makes the entire production much, much easier. But I'm thinking that I didn't do something right.

    First, ran Kickstart 54 on the original drive - saw that it reported an Error 7. Yup, definitely a failing drive (confirmed this with TiVo support). Then I did the following:

    • Booted up the original drive on the TiVo after doing SMART test. Seemed to run a bit better, but let's just be careful. Deleted all "Recently Deleted Files" and used TiVo Desktop to transfer a handful of still-to-be-watched programs to my PC just in case. Key point? The original drive is still funtioning at this point. Shaky, perhaps. But still working. Powered down TiVo.
    • Obtained a WD Caviar Black 1TB drive (didn't go with the Hitachi Deskstar -- too many Google searches influenced this decision; didn't go with any of the WD "green" drives per the recommendations to avoid those for TiVo purposes)
    • Using a WinXP SP3 machine - connected both drives via USB-to-SATA connectors and ran WinMFS. WinMFS did see both drives, one showing "250" (the original drive) and the other showing "1000".
    • Did the backup portion (took just a few minutes), then the copy of settings/programs from the TiVo drive to the WD (took more than a few hours)
    • MfsSuperSize
    • Powered down the PC, and installed the WD drive into the S3. Didn't run any WD-specific adjustments, as I've seen on other sites. Didn't change any jumpers or other factory settings on the drive.
    • Plugged TiVo back in, and watched the "Powering Up" screen for about 20+ minutes. All the front panel lights remained on, along with the TiVo logo on the display. Yeah, this probably isn't good.

    I have a few thoughts, but wanted to get expert opinions from y'all:
    * Is the WD drive just not recognized by the TiVo? Should I repeat the process with a different drive?
    * Did the backup fail to copy over the TiVo software? Do I re-run the WinMFS process, or try some other copy/upgrade method?

    My goal is to keep/transfer my shows and settings... but if I absolutely have to, I can survive with a blank install. Don't want to do that, but if it's the only feasible solution then I'll deal with it.

    So - what are your thoughts? Where did I go wrong?
     
  2. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Tried the original drive again to make sure TiVo still works?

    Accidentally partially dislodge front panel cable from motherboard?

    Exact 1 TB WD model number?

    Anything on the drive sticker about "advanced format"?

    Use a GigaByte brand motherboard?

    Tried jumpering the WD to change from 3GB/s to 1.5?

    (should be pins 5&6)
     
  3. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    Not yet - that was going to be my next step this evening, just to be sure.

    Will double-check connections as well.

    Don't have that in front of me (I know, I should have taken a photo before installing it). It *should* be model: WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN. I know that it's not one of the WD drives explicitly removed from the Recommended Drive lists, such as the EVVS or EVDS. I recall that it had an "F" on the drive sticker, but will need to confirm.

    Not that I recall. If it did, what should I do?

    Not likely. Old Gateway machine, circa 2004 or so

    No - but the drive is 3GB/s. I'll have to dig up a drive jumper from one of my bag 'o parts and confirm the exact jumper setting. Where would doing this fall on the heirarchy of fixes compared to other items?
     
  4. jbaum

    jbaum Member

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    Jul 23, 2002
    Interesting, upgraded my S3 last night with a WD Black Caviar WD1001FALS drive. With the cablecards inserted the S3 seems stuck on powering up, with the cable cards out it seems to boot up fine.

    Any thoughts is it definitely a cablecard issue, but I don't think they would fail. Any ideas on how to rule in or out the cable cards vs. me having an issue with the drvie upgrade?
     
  5. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    If TiVo is stuck on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen it means that the motherboard cannot communicate with the hard drive.

    Per Unitron's questions/advice...I'd follow all except one. There should be no need to jumper the drive and in fact that would likely make it not work at all. I would absolutely reinstall the original drive first to make sure TiVo is working correctly.

    Also, I don't know how many times you tried booting TiVo up, but it sometimes can take three or four efforts to get an upgraded drive working for some reason. If you haven't tried it, I would pull the plug, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and plug it back in. Repeat several times if necessary. Also be sure to give TiVo time to boot up. The initial boot up for a new drive can take a good while longer the first time while TiVo does some background housekeeping. Try leaving it on the Welcome screen for 10 to 15 minutes before pulling the plug again.

    When you plug it in can you hear the hard drive spin up? Put your ear to the case and you should hear an initial whirring followed by a number of clicks. If that doesn't happen at all...the drive is the problem of course. If you hear a few clicks and then nothing it could be the drive or a data corruption problem. It's possible that something went south during the upgrade and you might need to start over.

    FWIW the Drive Upgrade FAQ is pretty outdated now with respect to drive recommendations. WD's GP (green) drives are not to be avoided, they work perfectly fine (and are actually preferable over "normal" drives as they are quieter and run cooler). Some need a little additional attention to avoid an issue with the Intellipark settings which can cause TiVo to either not boot up initially or to not boot up from a manual restart...that's why we need the exact drive model number (which is on the drive label itself, not the box it came in).

    Hope that helps and looking forward to the additional info.
     
  6. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    Which method did you use to upgrade? Cable cards can certainly fail and coincidences can happen, but doesn't seem likely.

    Try leaving the cable cards in and disconnecting the coax when you boot it up. Does it still boot up okay?

    Took a look at the specs...that is one noisy drive (29dBA to 33dBA seek)! Are you able to live with that? By contrast the WD GP/AV hard drive line acoustic average is around 24dBA.
     
  7. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    Yup, on my plan to plug the original drive in.

    Reboots this morning? Twice. Both times let it sit for 15+ minutes.

    I definitely did hear spin-up on the Caviar (knew it would be heard compared to other drives). Worst case, maybe I'll pick up a 1TB WD GP drive tomorrow. If so, the Caviar won't go to waste - I'll just throw it into the NAS for expansion. Where's an up-to-date description of how to turn off Intellipark and which drives it's needed to be done on?

    Looking at the retail boxes, how can one tell which drive models are which? That seems to be my biggest initial issue with picking a drive at the local Hard Drive Shoppe

    Appreciate the feedback.
     
  8. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    The instructions in the FAQ are current (Section IV, #29):

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

    FWIW you don't need to disable Intellipark...changing the setting from the default 8 seconds to 300 (five minutes) works just as well. There have been some discussions about how disabling it may cause some longevity issues, but AFAIK there's no hard evidence one way or the other.

    At this point it's a bit of a crap shoot. For a while all WD GP drives manufactured between around August of 2009 and about September 15 2010 had to have the Intellipark feature adjusted. Subsequently some drives no longer needed it but others did...even within the same drive model. The only real way to find out is to perform the upgrade, install the drive and if it boots up initially (again, may take several tries) and if it does attempt a menu restart. If it hangs on the initial boot or on a manual restart the adjustment would need to be made. If not, it's nothing to worry about. Some folks simply make the adjustment to avoid having to pull the drive a second time.

    There's really no way of knowing until you open the box. WD has changed drives mid-stream and kept the package number the same. If you want to buy a specific drive, it's best to just order an OEM on line.

    Here are the current 1TB recommended hard drives:

    WD10EARS - Although quiet out of the box you can adjust the AAM to 128 to match WD's A/V dedicated drive line to make it quieter. May need the Intellipark feature adjusted.

    WD10EURS - A/V dedicated drive. May need the Intellipark feature adjusted.

    Me? I'd go with the WD10EURS for a little bit more.

    Hope that helps and let us know how it goes!
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,576
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    And that *should* be a WD1001FALS, the same drive that comes in the same box only with WD10000LSRTL on the label on the bottom instead of WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN.

    I'm using 2 of them in one S2 DT and another in another with no problems (with JMicron chipset SATA to IDE adapters).

    However, jbaum a couple posts back says he used the same drive to murder his S3. Y'all should compare notes.


    The WD1001FALS should be a 512 byte sector drive, not a 4096, or 4K, "advanced format" drive, although in a TiVo instead of an IBM-compatible PC, I don't know for sure if it matters or not. Just trying to collect enough datams to have data. (or enough anecdotes for the plural to be evidence)

    The WD1001FALS is a Caviar Black designed for us filthy rich who can afford to waste lots of electricity and destroy the planet in the process, so it shouldn't have intellipark, and shouldn't need it adjusted.

    I use the 1.5 limit jumper in a situation where the drive is talking to an adapter that's talking to an IDE controller so that the drive doesn't waste any time/risk any confusion auto-negotiating between 1.5 and 3.

    Not sure why richsadams thinks it could prevent operation.

    Are any of the S3s new enough to have 3GB/s SATA controllers?
     
  10. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I've seen you mention this several times now in relation to upgrading Tivo drives. Is there a problem using a PC with a GigaByte motherboard that I'm unaware of?
    I have an AMD based Gigabyte M68M-S2P (S-series) and recently upgraded a Premiere with the JMFS Live CD to 2TB without any problems.
    Is the "problem" Tivo model specific? I plan to upgrade my TivoHD in the future.
     
  11. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    I put the old TiVo drive back into the S3, and it booted up just fine. So there's nothing wrong with the hardware.

    In doing so, I'm able to confirm that the new drive I tried yesterday was a WD1002FAEX. I'm going to put this one in my NAS, and I picked up a WD10EURS at my local Hard Drive Shoppe.

    Starting the whole copying process over now with WinMFS. We'll see if this makes a difference.
     
  12. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    For documentation purposes:

    WD1002FAEX came in a box marked with model number WDBAAZ0010HNC-NRSN
     
  13. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    Ah, a WD1002FAEX. I Googled a WD1003FAEX that was listed in your earlier post and came up with squat (a few odd Japanese references)...except that your post was number four! Phew! Thought we had something new to deal with!

    Let us know how it goes with your WD10EURS! I'm betting you'll be good to go.
     
  14. richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    There were folks trying to use jumpers on various drives a while back and IIRC to a one when the drives were jumpered TiVo refused to get past the "Welcome" screen.

    To date the WD Advanced Formatted drives have had zero effect on TiVo when they have been used for upgrades.

    I'd have to go back and look but I believe the Premiere and Premiere XL use 3GB SATA controllers. I am almost certain the Series3's do not however.
     
  15. jbaum

    jbaum Member

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    Jul 23, 2002
    After a few reboots and reseating the cable cards I'm good with the Caviar black.
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,576
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Does that
    WD1002FAEX
    have anything on the sticker about "advanced format"?
     
  17. jbaum

    jbaum Member

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    Jul 23, 2002
    But it wasn't coincidental, i started down this path because the Tivo started rebooting, with my S1 and S2, it meant the HDD was failing. With the new hard drive, I expected everything to work fine, instead I'm seeing the same behavior as before I did the hardware upgrade. With or without the coax behavior is the same.
     
  18. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    No. Nothing about Advanced Format on the Caviar Black

    Jumpered pins 3-4 enables PUIS
    pins 5-6 limits PHY to 3gbps

    MDL: WD1002FAEX - 00Z3A0

    Feb 6, 2011.

    =-=-=-=

    The WD10EURS does say "Advanced Format Drive" -- (for non-Windows OS configurations, drive is ready for use as is) Additional jumper settings available at wdc.com/support

    Mar 26, 2011
     
  19. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    So far, no difference from last night's experience. BUT... I hadn't run the wdidle3 command yet - just popped the drive in to see if it would boot beyond the POWERING UP screen.

    Left it there for 30+ minutes. Nada. So I'm logging off here while I wdidle3. Be back in a little bit.
     
  20. WebG

    WebG New Member

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    Jan 30, 2005
    Alrighty - ran wdidle3 and got the update msg. Time to reinstall the WD Green drive into the S3 to see if that was the final step in this.

    While I'm doing that, what else could be the issue? The TBK file from the WinMFS backup is ~305MB if that matters.

    Should I try cloning the drive again on my Win7 machine instead of WinXP? If so, will I need to rerun wdidle3 again? Could the USB-to-SATA connectors I used for the drive clone be a factor?

    I'll let you ponder while I go screw some screws and plug some plugs.
     

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