Help with Resolution settings HD Tivo / Pioneer elite

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by sac84371, Nov 25, 2007.

  1. sac84371

    sac84371 Lost In Space

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    Jan 23, 2003
    Greater...

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    I have a brand new HD Tivo as well as a new Pioneer elite Plasma. The Plasma can display 480i/p, 720p, 1080i. The internal card on the Plasma is a top of the line processor from Key Digital. The card is capable of the same resolution display. I want the card to process all the video signals not the TIVO HD box. When I choose Native resolution for the TIVO HD video output I can extended delays when channel surfing my 30 HD channels. I assume this is due to my set switching output resolutions based on the input resolution (as you know HD channels vary resolutions from 480i - 1080i).

    My question is what happens if I set the output on the HD Tivo to fixed 1080i. Will the internal Plasma TV processor from Key Digital not process the signal and the TIVO HD box has to do all that work. I am going crazy with the delays using the native resolution output on the HD TIVO but I do want the best picture possible.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. PopcornGuy

    PopcornGuy Member

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    Set your Tivo output to 1080i fixed. Your TV will process the signal as a 1080i signal for everything coming from the Tivo including the menu screens. This will solve that annoying delay problem.
     
  3. Mars Rocket

    Mars Rocket Loosely wound

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    You have two mutually exclusive options. You can either have the best picture quality (using TiVo on Native and letting the TV process the video) or you can have less delay changing channels (setting the TiVo to output 1080i fixed.) You have to choose which.

    FWIW, the TiVo video scaler is pretty good - you may not actually notice a difference when using the TiVo at 1080i fixed output.
     
  4. Joybob

    Joybob New Member

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    Oct 2, 2007
    He'll sure as heck notice that weird line at the top of the screen during SD programs.
     
  5. pl1

    pl1 Well-Known Member

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    Just that setup I take it. I have 1080i fixed with my 2 S3's and there are no lines showing up on the four different model TV's I have connected in my house. :confused:
     
  6. jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    Dec 27, 2002
    Me either.
    What line?
    I have 2 S3's set to 1080i fixed.
     
  7. Joybob

    Joybob New Member

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    Oct 2, 2007
    You know. That line that contains caption info on analog SD channels?
     
  8. sac84371

    sac84371 Lost In Space

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    Jan 23, 2003
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    Thanks for the replies.

    So let me see if I understand this. If the source is being broadcast in 1080i the Tivo will pass the signal through to the TV without processing the signal and the TV will process the final signal. But if the signal is any other resolution like 480i or 720p then the TIVO will upconvert it to 1080i, then my TV will process the signal again. Bummer I wish there was a way to have the processor card in my TV do all the work without having to go through the resolution switching delays that are caused by using Native output with the Tivo. The Key Digital card I have is top of the line and is supposed to be one of the best scalers out but I can't put my wife through the switching delays when she channels surfs. I had to give up xmas presents for the next three years to get the Plasma and Tivo setup I have now. I have to make it easy on her while satisfying my need to get the best picture possible.

    Is this a shortcoming that all folks are experiencing that have TVs / Video Processors that are superior to that of the Tivo?

    Thanks again for the insight.
     
  9. jhimmel

    jhimmel Member

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    Dec 27, 2002
    Actually, no - I don't remember ever seeing it.
    I have FiOS, could that be why?
    Maybe I don't watch enough analog?
     
  10. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

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    Sep 15, 2006
    I have contacted my friend that works for Pioneer.

    You will get BETTER picture quality from letting the TV (Key Digital) process the video signal from the TiVo HD in "Native" mode. In this setup, the TiVo simply passes the signal "As Is" from the channel being watched. The Key Digital Processor then processes the signal to display on the TV. Doing any up-conversion if needed.

    When you set your TiVo HD to Fixed 1080i. The TiVo HD does all of the Up-Converting itself then passes the signal to the key Digital which then just displays the picture. (Since it is allready 1080i the key digital proeccesor doesn't do any additional processing).

    Here is the thing... you get BETTER picture quality, but it requires the DELAY to determine the signal (480i to 1080i) and what processing is needed. Thus the Delay.

    With the TiVo HD, you don't get the delay, but you don't get best possible picture.

    So it's a TRADE OFF, which do you want more? Better picture with Delay, or No delay but not as good a picture.

    Sorry can't have both.... at least not currently.

    TGC
     
  11. pl1

    pl1 Well-Known Member

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    Me either. I have Comcast.
     
  12. sac84371

    sac84371 Lost In Space

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    Greater...
    Thanks for the clarity on the subject. One addtional question. If I leave the TIVO in Native mode and I allow my TV / KD Card to do the switching of the resolutions everytime I tune in a HD channel will I harm my TV with the continous changing of resolution??

    Thanks.
     
  13. Mars Rocket

    Mars Rocket Loosely wound

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    The line some people see at the top of the screen is only there if your TV is in a dot-by-dot or just-scan mode (or whatever your TV calls it) with no overscan. Most TVs do some form of overscan when in 16:9 mode, and then you don't see the top scan line. The dot-by-dot mode lets you see every single line, and is useful when connecting the TV to a computer.

    sac84371, there shouldn't be any adverse affects on the TV because of switching resolutions. It would have to do it between different networks in any case since they don't all broadcast at the same res (some use 720p, some use 1080i).

    And again, don't underestimate the TiVo's scaler - it's really hard to see a difference, and only then on pristine video content. I've done extensive comparisons on my Dad's new Pioneer FD-110 50" plasma and I'm not even sure I could tell the difference.
     
  14. jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    Does this delay only occur when you change from one resolution to another? Are there any delays when changing from 1080i to 1080i channels? What is the native resolution of your plasma, 1080P or 720p (768P).

    In the meantime, maybe some reeducation is in order. Tivo consciousness mandates that one browse the schedule not surf the channels. Just a thought...
     
  15. sac84371

    sac84371 Lost In Space

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    Jan 23, 2003
    Greater...
    The native resolution is 768p, I only see a change in the resolution when I go from one resolution to a different resolution, no delay with 720p to 720p and the same for 1080i to 1080i, now if i go from say 1080i to 720p then I see the delay.
     
  16. jtkohl

    jtkohl Member

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    Arlington,...
    On my LCD TV, if I don't use dot-by-dot mode, then there's another round of scaling going on, right?
    TiVo upconverting to 1080i, then the TV scaling a few percent to crop the edges and re-fill the screen.

    It would be nice for the TiVo to have an "overscan trim" upconversion mode for 480i. Have it trim a couple of percent and scale the remainder up to fit inside 1080i.
     
  17. jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    Yes, you are correct. Simulating overscan on a fixed resolution 1080p display causes another level of scaling. Generally, most people won't notice it on scaled 480i SD but most can discern the difference between pixel perfect 1080i/p and an "overscanned" version. What display manufactuers need to do is have a discreet remote button and code to flip between the two modes on capable displays. There is really no way else to avoid this dilemma short of an expensive external video processor that can remember to overscale certain scaled modes but not touch native mode inputs.
     
  18. jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    For a thousand bucks you'd think you would have enough horsepower in your processor card to make it be near instantaneous. Too bad all the 720p channels can't be all sequential and then all the 1080i channels. Then you would only have one transition (and another into the SD realm). That would be bearable.

    You know, having the TiVo do fixed 1080i brings up the absurd condition of it interlacing and scaling a native 720p signal to 1080i sending it to the display's processor card which then must deinterlace and scale to native 768p. I can't think of a really good solution. Maybe there is a firmware upgrade available ? Just grasping at straws at this point. Maybe try AVS Forum?
     
  19. bizzy

    bizzy New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    San...
    to the OP: Have you even bothered viewing the results of scaling in the Tivo and compared it to your priceless Keystone Gammatron Visualpro 70000 Cost-o-matic Second Coming of Christ Scaler Chip (hewn out of virgin granite and 24k gold)?

    If not, why are you hemming and hawing so much? Does anything else really matter in this case besides picture quality?

    If you can't see a difference in PQ, why would you care which device does the scaling?

    If you can see a difference, and PQ is obviously of the utmost importance to you, then it seems your choice will be clear.
     
  20. sac84371

    sac84371 Lost In Space

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    Jan 23, 2003
    Greater...
    What is the Keystone Gammatron? Sounds pretty cool. Thanks for the comments. I have decided just to let the Tivo stay fixed at 1080i and be happy with the PQ as well as the flexiablity to channel surf if needed. Thanks for the input.
     

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