Help with moca

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by midnightmarauder, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. Sep 2, 2016 #1 of 23
    midnightmarauder

    midnightmarauder Member

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    Helping a friend cut the cord.
    I bought a moca 4 way splitter.
    He bought a clearstream 4 hd antenna.
    He'll be using a roamio and a tivo mini.
    The other two lines will be going straight into tv's.

    So will this create a moca network for him to use
    The mini off the roamio?

    He will be running rg6 from antenna to splitter out to roamio mini and two tvs
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  2. Sep 2, 2016 #2 of 23
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    No. Roamio with OTA has no Moca capability. He'll need at least one Moca bridge, or two if he can't run ethernet to the Roamio.

    I can't think of any reason to use a splitter or run coax straight to the TVs. Connect the antenna directly to the Roamio. Then connect the coax from the Moca bridge beside the router to any coax that runs to the Mini. The TVs can get channels through the Roamio or Mini's. No need for an antenna run to them.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2016 #3 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Agree w/ mdavej. Good call getting the MoCA-compliant splitter, but you'll need more than just that to establish a MoCA network. If you're doing OTA, then you have a 4-tuner Roamio, which has no built-in MoCA capability -- while the Mini can at least connect to a live MoCA network. As mdavej said, you'll need 1 MoCA adapter to create your MoCA network, and possibly 1 more if your Roamio cannot connect via Ethernet to your home network.

    The "MoCA splitter" you've purchased, assuming the labeling matches the specs, will only ensure that MoCA can flow through the splitter to other connected devices, where other, older splitters may be less gracious to MoCA signals. Further, depending on how you'll need things connected once the whole setup has been reviewed, you may find the MoCA splitter has more outputs than needed -- in which case, you can rightsize to another splitter or cap any unused ports with a 75-ohm terminator.


    We'll have to hear back from the OP, but the only reason I can think of is that they want a backup to TiVo tuning/viewing, or if these are other TVs where they won't be installing any TiVo devices.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2016 #4 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Additional thoughts/questions...
    • Re: purchase of a MoCA adapter... If your cable modem/router (aka gateway) is capable of creating a MoCA network, you wouldn't need a standalone MoCA adapter. It's unlikely you have the equipment to do so, but absent the brand & model info on your friend's modem & router, I wanted to make sure the possibility was mentioned.

      What brand/model# is/are the modem & router?

    • Speaking of their cable modem & router, does your friend have cable Internet or DSL, fiber, other? The key factor, here, is that cable TV & Internet signals must not be on the same coax lines as OTA antenna signals.

      Who is their provider and, if cable Internet, how is the cable routed from their provider to their modem? Is it a direct run, or does it rely on some of the house's coax wiring that is planned for distributing the OTA signal?

    • Re: routing of your OTA & MoCA signals... It's unclear whether you're looking to direct the OTA signal to 2 additional TVs where TiVo equipment won't be installed, or mistakenly thinking the OTA signal is needed in parallel to the TiVo gear at each of 2 total TV locations.

      Which is the case? How many total TVs are involved in this setup, either attached to a TiVo device or receiving the OTA antenna signal directly?

    • Sticking with the stated design where the OTA antenna feeds a single 4-way splitter feeding the rest of your equipment, and having a MoCA network active, you would need to install a PoE MoCA filter on the input to the splitter to prevent your MoCA signals from reaching and emanating from your antenna.

      More info on PoE MoCA filters here: "Why?"; "How?"
     
  5. Sep 2, 2016 #5 of 23
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Member

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    Basically, a MOCA network alone is not enough. You need the internet as well which is why you need the MOCA adapter (as was said before, the Roamia alone will not create the MoCa network).

    For your particular situation, just place your MOCA adapter at a spot where you can inject the internet into your cabling "network". Doesn't really matter where it is as long as it's after your MOCA splitter.

    Hook your cables up to the Roamio and the Mini and the TV's and you should be all set. Where the antenna hooks to the splitter, be sure to place a Tivo Approved POE filter at the input of the splitter. That will keep your MOCA network from going out on the antenna.

    So it would go like this - Antenna > POE Filter > Splitter > Output 1 - Roamio Output 2 - Mini Output 3 - TV1 Output 4 - TV2

    Place your MOCA adapter near any of your devices (Roamio, Mini, TV1, TV2) with Ethernet cable coming from your router. You may need another coax splitter to go from the MOCA adapter to the device.

    Confusing? It can be but it's quite simple once you understand it.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2016 #6 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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  7. Sep 2, 2016 #7 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'd recommend posting a diagram of your planned setup, including available coax and Ethernet runs to/in each room, how the runs interconnect (via what coax or networking components), how the coax lines route from their point-of-entry (cable provider or antenna), and what equipment is located in each room. (see attached for a couple example diagrams, not necessarily applicable to your setup, for inspiration; attractiveness isn't as importance as completeness/accuracy)
     

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  8. Sep 2, 2016 #8 of 23
    Chris Blount

    Chris Blount Member

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    This is a very crude drawing but this is how I see his set up.
     

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  9. Sep 2, 2016 #9 of 23
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Yeah, that's similar to what I'm envisioning, and you've filled-in some blanks as best as one can.

    Thoughts...
    • needs a modem

    • cable modem signal would conflict with OTA antenna signal, so fingers crossed that they're using DSL?
     
  10. midnightmarauder

    midnightmarauder Member

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    I guess I'll just set it up like mine at home.
    Ethernet to roamio and mini going into router.
    Ota antenna into roamio

    Then run coax to the two other tv's
     
  11. midnightmarauder

    midnightmarauder Member

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    Not a bad drawing at all sir and it does help now.

    Honestly I think it easier to run Ethernet to Roamio (6ft away) and then run another line up the wall through the attic and down in to the bedroom with the TiVo mini. Cheaper too and less things in the middle of the run.

    So if I have this right... Ethernet to roamio and mini, ota coax to roamio, and the other 2 standalone TV's with the built in tuners. Mini would pull the ota signal from a tuner on the roamio.

    Correct?
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Correct.

    Though if not throwing MoCA onto your coax lines, the PoE MoCA filter and MoCA adapter in the diagram would be unnecessary, of course, and you'd just need a 3-way coax splitter -- either balanced or unbalanced, depending on your needs. Further, these coax lines must be isolated from any coax run to your cable modem, if applicable to your setup (and as pondered in post#4, above).
     
  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Is there no possibility, once they've used the Roamio/Mini setup for a time, that they'd want to drop additional TiVo Minis at the other 2 TV locations? If so, you may want to ensure their coax supports MoCA, if buying any new coax components, even if not putting a MoCA adapter in place, today.
     
  14. midnightmarauder

    midnightmarauder Member

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    I don't see that happening. Even if I can always run another Ethernet line to the (second mini). leaving two tuners on the roamio.
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The Minis only consume a tuner on the host DVR when they're watching Live TV, not when watching a previous recording. When the TiVo Mini first hit the market they required a dedicated tuner from the host DVR; however, they've been capable of dynamic tuner allocation for some time.
     
  16. midnightmarauder

    midnightmarauder Member

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    Oh so with a moca setup you could have "infinite" numbers of TiVo mini's hooked up?

    Or could I just run a separate ota coax to the mini and have Ethernet connected to get the streaming correct?

    I guess I'm not understanding the benefit of MOCA if I can just do all these runs to each mini.

    Or can a TiVo mini only get live tv if:
    it's using a tuner of a host dvr or
    it's on a moca network

    so running the ota cable right to the mini won't work I'm guessing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2016
  17. fyodor

    fyodor Active Member

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    The mini has no tuners and will not do anything with your OTA signal. It needs a data connection with a DVR, from which it can stream live TV or recorded content.

    The advantage of MoCA is that it is often impractical or difficult to run cable Ethernet between rooms. MoCA provides a data connection over your home's existing coaxial wiring which a Mini can use to stream content from a host DVR. If you are able to run Ethernet then you don't need MoCA.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I'm still curious as to how Internet is being provided at your friend's place and, if cable Internet, how that coax relates to the OTA coax you're planning.

     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Not "infinite," but quite a few... and the number of Minis isn't linked to their connection method, strictly speaking.

    I believe you could probably add Minis up to the limit of TiVo devices on a given account (12), minus 1 for the host DVR. Of course, the host DVR cannot support streaming to that many Minis, simultaneously; I'm not actually sure what the effective limit is, off the top of my head, nor how it would differ between a 4-tuner Premiere, 4-tuner Roamio, 6-tuner Roamio and BOLT, given each DVR has unique processor & networking specs. The TiVo Custom Installers Tips & Tricks document suggests limiting MoCA-connected TiVo devices to 5, but I expect that's a recommendation based on limits associated with all 5 devices streaming simultaneously.

    We have 8 TiVo Minis connected to a 6-tuner Roamio Pro as their host DVR, 5 connected via MoCA, 3 via Ethernet -- though we don't often have more than 4 streaming simultaneously.


    If running Ethernet to a Mini, there's no need for a coax run at all -- unless you would still want to connect that coax line to the TV's antenna signal, as an alternative TV feed.


    If you can do Ethernet to every TV location, there's not much value in using MoCA, instead. MoCA is typically considered as an alternative to Ethernet, if you can't make an Ethernet connection available at a given TV location, with a TiVo whole home solution potentially being a mix of wired Ethernet and MoCA devices.


    A TiVo Mini can only stream Live TV from a host DVR by using a tuner on the host DVR, and if the host DVR has sufficient network bandwidth to stream that tuned signal via a network connection to the Mini. TiVo only officially supports wired Ethernet or MoCA connections for this Multi-Room Streaming (MRS) capability, though some people have had success using wireless or Powerline adapters, of sufficient bandwidth, to make it work.


    The only way a coax line would be useful to a TiVo Mini would be if there was an active MoCA network on the coax and the Mini needed it for networking. A TiVo Mini can't do anything with an OTA antenna signal; as you stated above, the Mini relies on its host DVR for tuning the TV signal.
     
  20. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    The alternatives...

    (a) Provide the OTA signal via coax to the additional 2 TVs only, connecting the coax to the TV inputs;

    (b) Run Ethernet to the additional 2 TVs to support TiVo Minis, connecting the Minis to the TV displays via A/V connections (HDMI, component or composite);

    (c) Both (a) & (b), so the TVs have a backup TV signal feed in the event that their associated Mini is dead, the Mini is unable to tune Live TV at a given moment, or if synchronized Live TV is desired across multiple rooms.

    That said, if you find you need to run coax to provide the OTA signal to the TV, then that coax line can be multipurpose, by also carrying the MoCA networking signal -- rather than running an additional Ethernet line to the location.

    The main downside to running the OTA signal to multiple locations is the drain on signal strength; too many runs and you may need to add an amplifier. That's one of the benefits of the TiVo whole home solution, you only need a single feed of the OTA antenna to reach the host DVR, and the rest of the TiVo Minis just need to be wired to the network.
     

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