Help with MoCA Network Design (with Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini and AT&T)

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by Kennyr35, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018

    Advertisements

    So, I am looking for some help designing a MoCA network for my house.

    Current Setup
    I am using AT&T DSL and an ASUS Router.
    I have 2 x Roamio OTA with an Antenna on the roof. Both are currently using WiFi.
    Every room is hooked up for Coax (to connect to the Antenna), but no ethernet.
    There are 6 rooms split between two splitters. One spitter is hooked up to two rooms and the other is hooked up to 4. The signal strength is about 65-70% on the TiVos, so I do not want to lose any signal.
    I also have a Logitech Harmony Elite hub in Bedroom 1 that is controlling the Roamio plus many other devices (not sure if this is relevant, but it might be).

    Future Setup
    Attached is what I am thinking, and I am looking for some feedback. I added some diplexers after reading some threads and it seems like a good idea to keep my signal strong. Keep in mind currently bedroom 2, 3 and the basement do not have any TV or TiVo but in the future they probably will. So, I am trying to make sure this is somewhat future proof. I also have a TV in the office and would like to setup a TiVo mini in that room and I am not sure how to accomplish this.

    Thanks! Pardon my Visio skills!

    TiVO MoCA.png
     
  2. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    Last question first... Re: the Office Mini ... you can simply connect the Office Mini to a LAN port on the router and configure the Mini for an Ethernet connection (a whole home setup can be a mix of Ethernet and MoCA); or use a 2-way splitter to connect both the Mini and the MoCA adapter to the coax cable coming from the wall outlet and configure the Mini as a MoCA client.
     
  3. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    As for the planned setup, it looks good/workable to me as diagrammed. I'll toss some thoughts your way, but the suggestions aren't critical.

    OTA signal strength :: Short term, to get the best possible OTA signal to the DVRs, I'd think you'd want the rooms with your Roamio OTA units connected to the primary splitter outputs, and then connect the current Mini-only locations and the bridging MoCA adapter at the router location to the secondary splitter outputs.

    Standalone diplexer vs built-in :: Depending on whether you've already purchased your MoCA adapters, you may want to consider the new-ish Motorola MM1000 MoCA adapters, as their built-in diplexer would simplify each Roamio OTA location setup, eliminating the separate diplexer and one coax cable. And the MM1000 is $20 cheaper, retail, than a TiVo Bridge.

    NOTE: If using a MoCA adapter with a RF/STB Out pass-through port, keep in mind that the adapter is using a built-in diplexer to allow only sub-1 GHz signals through the pass-through port, so you could not connect a second MoCA device to the pass-through port with any expectation of successful MoCA connectivity for this device. It would be no different than trying to MoCA-connect a Mini via a diplexer's ANT port.​

    Live TV Mini-bypass via diplexer :: If you already have the diplexers and are looking for something to do with them after opting for the MM1000 MoCA adapters, you could use a diplexer at a Mini location where you'd like the ability (for whatever reason or none at all) to bypass the TiVo setup for live TV viewing. The Mini would connect to the diplexer SAT port and the ATSC-capable TV would connect to the diplexer's ANT (UHF/VHF) port.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
    Kennyr35 likes this.
  4. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Thanks for the response!

    This is a great idea, but wont be possible because of where everything is positioned in the house. The antenna goes down to the basement to get an outlet where the booster is hooked up. It goes outside to the first splitter which is closest to the Den and Bedroom 2. Then goes around to the other side of the house to the 2nd splitter and connects to the Basement and other rooms.

    I have not purchased anything yet and removing a whole device seems like a great idea to simplify the setup. I will probably go with this. In terms of your note, which MoCA adapters work that way?

    This is a great idea and will probably go with it.
     
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003

    Advertisements

    Ah, I was wondering if those 2 splitters weren't as near each other as I inferred from the diagram; given the quality of the setup/diagram, I suspected that you'd have already made the Roamio connection if it were possible, but didn't want to leave it unsaid.

    Any with a RF pass-through port... Motorola MM1000, Actiontec ECB2500C or ECB6200, to name a few. (edit: The TiVo Bridge and Actiontec ECB6000 lack the pass-through port -- noting that a TiVo Bridge is just a rebranded ECB6000.)

    Makes sense to take advantage of the OTA signal if you're sending it everywhere.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  6. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Based on the question and answer on the amazon page, it looks like the MM1000 won’t work with AT&T DSL. I assume this is correct?
     
  7. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    Incorrect. Someone really needs to go through those Q&A's to provide clarification.

    If ALL you had was a DSL connection to a modem/router, and you had no coax lines within the house, yeah, you'd be out of luck. But, fortunately, you have coax runs to every room, ideally suited for an OTA/MoCA setup, and for which the MM1000 is currently the best retail MoCA adapter option.
     
    Kennyr35 likes this.
  8. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Thank you so much for your help so far. It is greatly appreciated. Another question, is there any reason to go with the TiVo bridge by the router instead of the MM1000? What would be the use case to use the bridge vs the MM1000?
     
  9. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    Happy to be of perceived help, if not yet actual.

    Because you want to spend more money or have slower effective throughput between your MoCA adapters.

    Unless you can buy a TiVo Bridge for less than the MM1000, I can't think of a reason to do so, especially since the MoCA adapter at the router location is the most critical adapter in terms of determining your effective throughput from the remote MoCA adapters to the router and Internet. The TiVo Bridge (i.e. Actiontec ECB6000) is just standard MoCA 2.0, and so limited to 400 Mbps; while the MM1000 and ECB6200 are bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 and can reach up to 800 Mbps.

    But here's the kicker, MoCA is peer-to-peer and the effective throughput between two nodes is determined by the highest spec supported by BOTH nodes. So, a standard MoCA 2.0 adapter as your main bridge (e.g. a TiVo Bridge) would throttle traffic from any remote bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 adapters (e.g. MM1000) to the router to standard MoCA 2.0, 400 Mbps -- as opposed to using a bonded/extended MoCA adapter as the bridge, enabling up to the full 800 Mbps throughput between two bonded MoCA 2.0 nodes.

    All that said, these speed maximums are irrelevant if all you're looking to do is provide networking for a Roamio OTA and Minis, since a Roamio OTA will be limited by its Fast Ethernet port (100 Mbps), no matter how fast the MoCA segment may be. Also, v1 & v2 Minis are Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps) and MoCA 1.1 (up to 170 Mbps), and the new Mini VOX has Gigabit Ethernet and standard MoCA 2.0 (<400Mbps) -- which, again, is somewhat moot in terms of TiVo-to-TiVo networking since the Roamio OTA's Fast Ethernet port will remain the limiting factor.

    The primary reason to go with the MM1000's for your setup is cost and the RF pass-through port; however, you may find you can benefit from the greater bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 throughput offered between a pair of these adapters if you have other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with either of your Roamio OTAs. One additional tweak to your planned setup that I could/should have mentioned earlier would be using a Gigabit network switch at either Roamio OTA location to allow for connecting more than just the Roamio OTA to the wired network. For example (though not visualizing a Roamio OTA setup):

    MoCA_adapter_with_switch.png

    The example demonstrates one of the common selling points for MoCA beyond our TiVo world, using coax to provide wired connectivity to additional wireless access points throughout the home to eliminate wireless dead zones. Of course, the value of this last suggestion does depend on your actual throughput needs, now and in the near future.
     
  10. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Thanks for the help! I recently changed my internet to RCN 1GbE cable. The only difference in my setup is that now the connection coming from the ISP is coax vs RJ45. Would the MM1000 connecting to the router/antenna change at all? Check below screenshot.

    TiVO MoCA V3.jpg

     

    Attached Files:

  11. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    If the RCN Internet coax connection to the modem is via a coax run isolated from the rest of your coax (which connects back to your antenna signal), then everything can remain the same. The OTA antenna and cable Internet signals can't share coax.
     
  12. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Heya, thanks for the help so far. I am pretty close to putting this all together, but I am interested in your mention of a adding a switch to the network. Will this only work with the WAP or can I do something like the attached? Where I just have the MOCA adapter connected to the switch and the switch connected to my various devices.


     

    Attached Files:

  13. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    Yes, you can network multiple devices via a MoCA adapter by using a switch as you've depicted in Bedroom 1.

    That said, I expect it's just an oversight, but you've neglected to show the coax connections to the Roamio OTA boxes in Bedroom 1 and the Den; I'm assuming you'd planned on connecting each box to its associated MM1000 MoCA adapter's RF pass-through port.

    The only other mysteries are why 2 splitters are being used on the roof; and why Bedroom 2 is being connected to the initial splitter rather than Bedroom 1, since you'd want to get a stronger signal to the DVR in Bedroom 1. Answered previously:
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  14. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    The diagram could still use a tweak to make clear that the "Coax Internet" cable run is distinct from the antenna coax runs; and it might be worthwhile to segment the two roof location and their associated rooms to make the physical separation (and reason for multiple splitters) more clear.

    edit: bored ... and procrastinating ... so:

    TiVO MoCA 4 alt.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  15. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Thanks for the help! Attached is my latest diagram.
    I assume the OTA's are going to connect to the device port via coax on each MM1000, what is the benefit of this again vs just connecting via ethernet? Or is it a requirement in order for the MOCA network to work with the Tivo?
     

    Attached Files:

  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    MoCA is just providing a network connection. The Roamio OTA DVR's kinda need the raw antenna signal to tune your TV content, right? ;)

    (And, yes, the Roamio OTA's would connect to the MM1000's "Device" port.)
     
    Kennyr35 likes this.
  17. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    Doh, of course they would need the Coax!

     
    krkaufman likes this.
  18. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    So, I have everything hooked up right now and it all seems to be working. I purchased the MM1000 for each of the rooms plus the switch and cables. I did not purchase any TiVo Mini's. My question is that everything seems to be working but I never changed any of the TiVO OTA's to MOCA. I don't even see this as an option within the settings. I am using the latest software so maybe they removed it from the options?
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

    15,900
    2,959
    Nov 25, 2003
    The 4-tuner Roamio's have no built-in MoCA functionality, and so no MoCA options within its network configuration page. A 4-tuner Roamio would either be connected directly to the Ethernet LAN or via Ethernet to a MoCA adapter (or its connected switch); either way, the Roamio is connected via Ethernet (as far as it knows) and would be configured for an Ethernet connection.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  20. Kennyr35

    Kennyr35 New Member

    19
    3
    Apr 29, 2018
    So, I am thinking about buying one Mini for my Office which already contains the MM1000 connected to my router. In my diagram I have the mini connected to the router. Can I connect the mini to the MM1000 device port instead or does it need to connect to the router directly? The router and MM1000 are about 5 feet from one another, but they are also across the room from one another. To avoid cables going into the middle of the room, I have a long 50 foot ethernet cable to go around the outside of the room. The mini would be by the TV and MM1000 which is why I ask.
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements