Help me upgrade my Roamio OTA's HDD

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by Keatah, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    I've got a Roamio OTA with lifetime service and a 1TB HDD internall HDD. Time has come to upgrade to a 2, 3, or 4TB drive. In preparation I D'L the MFS 3.32 toolset. I don't mind hooking drives up and copying/cloning them. I've read through some of the megathreads on upgrading but still have some questions. There seems to be be a lot of "shoulds" and vaguely conflicting information that rears it's ugly head when drilling down into the technicals.

    I was originally thinking about using an external drive. But I read there's too many issues.

    1- I want to upgrade without losing all existing programming or settings. Can this be done and exactly how do I go about it?

    2- I understand that a 1TB to 3TB clone operation would require the target drive be resized or supersized. Exactly how is this done?

    3- I would prefer to keep this operation as simple as possible and not use more than 1 or two programs. I'm not interested in using archivo or pytivo or similar as that appears to require a MAK and that implies a subscription service.

    4- Thanks!
     
  2. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    MFSTools 3.x is all you need. It would take many hours, even overnight, to copy over. Depending on how full it is, this includes the Recently Deleted Folder.
    Its all done with just the single MFSTools command line.
    Its all included in your Tivo service. It just need to be active on your tivo.com account. (enable Video Sharing, under DVr Preferences.) PyTivo is an example of programs that let you download or upload shows. You can also use KMTTG to download shows, backup/restore passes, etc.

    It is recommended to use WD Red drives, ending in model EFRX (ie: WD30EFRX 3TB). The drives ending in EFAX does not work.
     
    Keatah likes this.
  3. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    This is were it gets confusing.

    If I just need MFS and single command line to clone and resize, why would I need to do anything wity PyTivo, or KMTTG?

    Why wouldn't the cloning operation transfer everything over?

    Sorry for being pedantic. But things with computers kinda force that. Potential rabbit holes and pitfalls even more so.
     
  4. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,448
    333
    Nov 5, 2008
    No need to go external with Roamio as it uses 3.5" internal drive. Read the thread on MFS Tools, very easy to copy and expand. I'd recommend WD Purple if you want to use WD, all current model purples are CMR, they have AV firmware (Tivo is an AV device after all) and Weaknees uses purples in at least some of their upgrades.
     
    g1257e and Keatah like this.
  5. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,448
    333
    Nov 5, 2008
    Since you are doing a copy and expand with MFSTools don't need Pytivo or any other program, those are for backing up and restoring, you are copying.
     
    Keatah likes this.
  6. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    You can download shows to view on a computer, use as a back up, in case something went wrong with your new drive/copy. This means that the drive must be running in the Tivo that recorded them.
     
    Keatah likes this.
  7. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    Ok. So one command line it is. Clones and resizes.

    Next step is which drive. I just got two different suggestions. A RED NAS and PURPLE AV. Why those choices? Others have said the Green AV drive is yet another choice. But it sounds like Purple surveillance drive is the right choice? WD30PURX..
     
  8. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    If something went wrong with the copy/clone process and the new drive didn't work, couldn't I just put the old drive back in or try again? I can't imagine the tivo firmware watching the drives being swapped like that..?

    Or would the ROAMIO force a format in that situation? like if it sees a new drive and then the old one.. boom! format!
     
  9. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    If you download shows to the computer, then you can do more things with it, such as remove commercials, etc.
    Not all WD Red works, the models ending in EFAX will not, but ending in EFRX will. The purple should work as a few have used them.
    Green AV are not being made any more, is sold overpriced, more noise (compared to the EFRX), needs settings turned off.
     
    Keatah likes this.
  10. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    Alright then. Thanks for the information so far. I'm leaning toward the Purple WD30PURX, because it's an AV surveillance drive.. Unless there is a reason to go with the Red WD30EFRX.

    I plan to proceed like so..

    1- disassemble tivo, replace fan, remove old 1tb hdd

    2- create MFS toolkit cd/usb

    3- connect both old and new hdd to pc

    4- do something like mfscopy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY to clone and resisze the 1tb drive to the 3tb drive.

    5- install new 3tb into tivo

    6- replace the cover and power the box up. And pray that the whole operation works.

    Anything else? What's that I read about KS57 or KS58? And what does the -ai option do?
     
  11. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    You need to detemine what drive designation is assigned to each drive. It would not be exactly '/dev/sdX' The 'X' and 'Y' is only an example for their source and target.
    I think the command ldisk -l (small L) will tell what they are.

    I believe you would only need to use -a and not -ai option, for this will also expand the drive to the full capacity.
     
    Keatah likes this.
  12. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,448
    333
    Nov 5, 2008
    Actually the latest model is WD30PURZ. Either will work, unless you can get the PURX cheaper than the PURZ I'd go with the "Z". I would buy from a WD authorized seller, that way you get full warranty from the day of purchase. Just keep your receipt, maybe register it with WD.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
  13. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    Alright. Next thing to do is purchase the drive and fan. And practice a clone operation in Linux, it's been a while. And wait for a break in the wife's tv schedule. May be a few weeks.

    A question though, does the tivo roamio box keep the hdd spinning 100% of the time its powered on? Or does the hdd go into sleep modes when not watching or recording?
     
  14. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Yes.
     
  15. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,448
    333
    Nov 5, 2008
    With a Roamio yes, as long as you got the drive letters right when copying (ie did not copy the 3TB onto the 1TB). Not true with a Bolt, when swapping drives around you can lose everything. The Bolt does have OS info on a flash drive. As does the Roamio, but not as much which is why you can swap drives around and not lose things with a Roamio but not a Bolt.
     
  16. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    Still up in arms as to which drive to get.

    WD30EURX green
    WD30EFRX red
    WD70PURZ purple

    Some say the NAS/RED. Others says the surveillance Purple. Everyone says to avoid the green because of the cost. Cost isn't a concern considering potential headaches down the line later.

    Confused because the drives have vastly different firmwares.

    I'm not even sure what's in there now. I won't have access to taking the unit apart till sometime mid-july. It's a series 5 ROAMIO OTA
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  17. tommage1

    tommage1 Well-Known Member

    1,448
    333
    Nov 5, 2008
    Green is ok but no longer manufactured so even if you can find an unused one would probably be expensive and possibly no warranty. Red has NAS firmware, it is designed for multiple drive NAS systems. It would work (at least if you get the correct model number). Purple has AV firmware, is designed for 24/7 AV devices. Which is what a Tivo is. And Weaknees uses purples, they sell Tivo upgrades as a business. All 3 drives should work, consider warantees, current vs no longer manufactured models and what the drives are designed for.
     
  18. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Green can give you a headache trying to figure how to turn off a few settings on the drive to make it work in Tivo.

    Red (ending in EFRX) will work, but avoid (ends in EFAX). No settings to fuss with. Purple (PURx) will work also.
    You can also go up to 8TB, but Roamio will only format up to 3TB, use MSFR (Windows program) to get full disk space.
    MFSTools 3.x will work to copy the Roamio drive to new drive and use full space, but it would take many hours, even overnight.
     
  19. Keatah

    Keatah New Member

    22
    0
    Jun 30, 2020
    I just got through reading about the TLER/raid issue for the reds. And that the purples can only handle 4 streams at a time, but support 32 in an 8-drive configuration. Purples were also prone to handling internal surface errors again due to the TLER required for NAS boxes.

    I was not aware that the green AV-GP needed a firmware patch to prevent power down. The standard green one, yes, it shuts down in 9 seconds. But the AV model WD30EURX stays on i believe, otherwise why call it an AV drive?

    Then I read that a 3TB drive needs an upgraded power supply.. to handle the drive spin-up current draw.

    This whole idea of doing an internal drive upgrade is becoming a rabbit hole I was hoping to avoid. Starting to think it may be better to just get the external 1TB tivo-approved DVR expander and just be careful about the cables. Two points of possible failure may be better than using the wrong drive.

    Or simply go an entirely different route like cable and call it a day.

    Sorry for being tedious and pedantic again. But with computers (and a dvr is computer) everything has to match and work together or problems arise later. And with the tivo design many things seem to be shrouded in mystery and have no room for mistakes or mismatches.

    People say the purple and reds work, for how long. A month, 2 months? Any proof they work for 2 years? What happens when an error crops up on the drive?
     
  20. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

    11,853
    959
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    That is not wise and these expanders are not made any more. More than 2 points for failures, the external drive, external case and connectors,the internal drive, the eSATA cable. The shows recorded are spread between the 2 drives, so any issues and you lose them.

    The greens do not need a firmware patch. There is just a couple things on the drive that needs to be disabled before it will work.
    I have a 4TB Red running 4+ years, no problems and is currently 40% full.
     

Share This Page