Help! I think my TiVo Died

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by BankZ, Oct 11, 2011.

  1. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Wanna let the bad supply go cheap?

    As long as I'm gonna have to mail order caps I might as well get a lifetime supply and repair a spare.
     
  2. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    I've been following the threads regarding the Series 3 and their problems with the HD's, capacitors and power supplies. I'm wondering if I'm having the same types of issues.

    I have a Series 3 with the original internal HD and a 1TB WD10EWS HD attached. I've checked the esata cable and resecured both ends.

    Within the last few days, the S3 has been misbehaving - the picture on play back has been pixelating, running slowly and then after some time begins to run properly. While watching a couple of shows tonight, we got part way thru and the S3 rebooted. When it started again, it ran back approx. 10 minutes prior to the reboot point.

    I've run KS 54 which indicates that the HD's are okay.

    Would the next step be to check the capacitors and replace them, assuming they're OEM items? And then follow that with checking the power supply? (I found another thread with instructions how to check voltages.)

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.

    Don
     
  3. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Tivos apparently don't save the 'current location' state until you actively pause or go back out..
    That is, I saw the same thing when my TivoHD was rebooting -- on the next boot, it would start at the place I had paused previously, not anywhere close to where it was when it rebooted.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you obtain the drive manufacturer's own diagnostic software (the internal's probably a WD as well, but no promises) and run the long tests on both.

    You should also go to badcaps.net and familiarize yourself with how to look for "capacitor disease", and with why low Equivalent Series Resistance, or low ESR, capacitors are necessary in switching power supplies.

    Then, when you've got the TiVo opened you can carefully examine the capacitors in the power supply.

    I'm awaiting a shipment of replacement caps right now for an S3 HD power supply. There were 2 with an almost imperceptable amount of bulge to the "should have been absolutely flat" tops, and that was enought to turn the +5V output into a 4V output (and, no doubt, at a lesser rate of availible current). Installing a couple of other caps (close enough in the specs for experimentation purposes) borrowed from a power supply from a different model TiVo confirmed that they were the culprits.

    I don't know if you have a drive problem, a power supply problem, or both or neither, but a power supply that's going bad can cause all sorts of strange symptoms.
     
  5. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    Thanks, Mattack - that's a logical explanation. Sure is frustrating tho to get close to the end of a show and have the Tivo reboot.

    Unitron - thanks as well. My next step is to check out the capacitors. I'm guessing that they're the CapXon's and will need to be replaced.

    re: using the drive mfg'r's diagnostic software - can it be run from a Mac?

    which brings up two other questions:
    1) can I replace the power supply with one from a S1 I'm no longer using?
    and, 2) is there Mac software to use to copy the drives if I were to replace them (I do have an old PC around that I've used in the past to swap drives in the S1. With the S3 and the THD, it's been easier to just get the external drives.)

    I appreciate the help. Thanks again.

    Don
     
  6. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Considering how many people call them CrapXon I'd be tempted to replace them just on GP no matter how good they looked, however I've got 3 S2 DT power supplies with CapXon caps that still work just fine.

    The bad caps I've run into so far (S2 240 supply and S3 HD 652 supply) have all been Teapo brand.

    That's only in TiVos, though. I pulled a bunch of bad CapXon caps out of an LCD monitor and TV.


    Don't know nothin' 'bout no Macs, Miss Scarlett, but if it's one of the newer Intel based ones and it can boot from a cd, try the MFS Live cd (it's handy to have around anyway) and if it boots from that you can probably use the cd iso of the manufacturer's diagnostic software.

    If you look at the replacement power supply pictures at weaknees

    http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-power-supply.php

    you'll see that the S1 supplies are a different size and shape, not to mention having different connectors, so set that idea gently aside and never return to it. That way I don't have to worry about you burning down your house trying to juryrig it. If you knew enough to do that you'd know enough to know how much easier it would be to replace caps in the Series 3 platform supply.
     
  7. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    Originally posted by Unitron:

    For the benefit of future searchers, when I talk about the big caps I mean the ones on the output side of the supply. The big one on the input side doesn't seem to have problems and is probably best left alone.

    As I mention elsewhere CapXon brand has a pretty poor reputation overall, and I've pulled bad ones out of non-TiVo equipment, but the 3 S2 DT power supplies I have are all still good and they have CapXon caps in the places where caps go bad, and the bad caps I've found in TiVo supplies so far have been Teapo brand, so perhaps I was a bit hasty in my advice to replace the CapXon caps just for the sin of being that brand.

    If, as in Sarge3515's case, you find one that's bad, if you know enough about electronics to tell if another one was in electrical parallel to it, you should probably replace it as well.

    The S3 HD supply has 3 16V 2200uF caps right together and 2 of them are paralleled from the +5V output to ground. I'd consider them both suspect if either showed any signs of bulge at all.

    The 3rd one is physically next to those 2 but in a different circuit.[/QUOTE]

    I pulled the cover off today - in addition to the box being a breeding ground for dust bunnies, the large CapXon C620, 25v 220uF capacitor was bulging a bit.

    you mentioned replacing 2 of the 16v 2200uF caps - where are they located, for the electronically challenged?

    thanks,

    Don
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I pulled the cover off today - in addition to the box being a breeding ground for dust bunnies, the large CapXon C620, 25v 220uF capacitor was bulging a bit.

    you mentioned replacing 2 of the 16v 2200uF caps - where are they located, for the electronically challenged?

    thanks,

    Don[/QUOTE]

    Are you talking about an original Series 3, the TCD648xxx, or the S3 HD, the TCD652xxx, or HD XL, the 658xxx?
     
  9. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    it's the original Series 3, the TCD648xxx.

    I made a mistake earlier - I have an unused Series 2 - looking at the Weaknees site - the power supplies are different.
     
  10. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen a TCD648 power supply in person.

    I was talking about a TCD652 power supply having 2 bad caps on the +5V rail.

    Judging from the pictures at weaknees, the 2 supplies have the same "footprint", physically, but the arrangement of components appears to be different, and both differ from the one I actually have here "on the bench"

    Assuming your power supply looks something like the ones in the bottom 2 pictures, find the AC input on the left of the pictures.

    As you move to the right you'll go past a coil and a yellow thing and another coil on a different kind of core and then you get to what should be the biggest capacitor on the board (plus a black rectangular thing that looks like a skinnier version of the yellow thing). That biggest capacitor will probably be under 1000uF and rated around 200 Volts.

    It's probably alright, it has a very simple job at a relatively low frequency because it comes before the "switching" part of the supply.

    As you move further right you pass another coil with a yellow label on top and then you get to a big heat sink, either silver or black that has the switching transistors mounted to it.

    The pictures show caps above the heat sink and below it, that is north and south of it in the pictures (although there may be more that are under the bent over part of the heatsink and don't show in the pictures), whereas on all of my Series 1, 2, and 3 supplies they're all on one side of the heat sink, the side with the wires that go to the motherboard and the hard drive, and so far the ones that have needed replacing have been tucked in under the heatsink's overhang to make them harder to get at.:)

    Anyway, the caps near the heat sink are the ones that need eyeballing closely.

    It could be that the one you already found is the only bad one, but then again it only takes one bad one to screw things up.
     
  11. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    Thanks for the hand holding - on the S3, the problem capacitor is the large one in the cluster of five north of the heat sink.

    Don
     
  12. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any electronics parts stores nearby besides Radio Shack?

    Or perhaps a good repair shop?
     
  13. mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    If you're referring to the OLED S3 & TivoHD, I noticed the same thing.. they look very very similar but not quite identical.

    Are they electrically identical? i.e. could I place a TivoHD power supply in an OLED S3 without burning it out? I have a S3 that won't turn on (drive and fan get power, nothing else seems to get power).. and I happened to have bought 2 used TivoHDs to fix what I THOUGHT was a hardware problem on my TiVoHD, but really seems to be filesystem problems (putting in a new drive months ago DIDN'T fix it, which made me think hardware -- but now I think I essentially copied from an already mostly-hosed drive which then got more hosed as time went on, to suddenly permanently rebooting).. Putting the orig drive back in the TivoHD seems to work (but of course so far I have lost the programming on the new drive(s))

    anyway, getting the OLED S3 back working would be useful -- but I don't want to buy a new power supply if I don't know that's actually the problem. Since it seemed to happen RIGHT when I upgraded the hard drive (and the previous drive simply 'died' -- it too spins when it gets power, but not even a computer sees it at the SATA level)... it seems power supply related but I'm not positive.
     
  14. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    First thing to do is make sure the power supplies in those 2 used HDs work.

    Then, examine the plugs that go to the motherboard, comparing the HD supply to the S3 supply. If they physically are interchangeable, see if the same color wires go to the same holes.

    On my HD supply, which looks different from either picture, there are 6 black (ground), 2 orange (+3.3V), 3 red (+5V) and 1 yellow (+12V) and 2 empty holes.

    And of course there are black, red, and yellow going to the hard drive harness, but those are standardized and can be ignored.

    Make sure the same color is in the same holes on the plugs that go to the motherboard and that empty is in the same holes.

    If so, you may be in luck.

    On the board you should see silkscreened AC Input, DC Output, and Total Power.

    If the DC output shows about the same amperage for each voltage on each board, the 648 and the 652 (I don't mean like 2 amps for both 5 and 12, but the same figure, or nearly so, for 3.3 on each board, and about the same for 5 on each board, and about the same for 12 on each board) and if the total power wattage is very close or higher on the 652 board than it is on the 648 board, you should be able to get away with it, at least long enough for test purposes.

    If one of the boards has a DC Voltage listed that the other one doesn't, forget it. If the colors aren't in the same places, forget it.
     
  15. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    Do you have any electronics parts stores nearby besides Radio Shack?

    Or perhaps a good repair shop?

    Radio Shack doesn't have any - I'm going to check out a couple of audio repair places. Have to do it quick - this watching real-time TV is painful.

    thanks,

    Don
     
  16. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Be sure they understand you need a low ESR cap.

    Are you just going to buy the cap from them or get them to do the soldering and unsoldering?
     
  17. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    After going thru a list of local TV repair shops, I found one that had the capacitor I needed. I took the offending board into the shop and had the new capacitor swapped in.

    The Tivo booted up without a problem and we didn't lose any shows.

    We may have another problem with the inability to delete shows but I'm going to save that issue for another thread.

    Thanks for all the help! It's greatly appreciated. [media]http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/images/smilies/smile.gif[/media]
     
  18. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    An inability to delete shows has nothing to do with the power supply and vice versa.

    Sorry to hear not all of your problems are over.

    Do those shows you can't delete actually exist? Can you actually play them?

    Sometimes you can wind up with listings for recordings that aren't there anymore, but that's usually the result of restoring a truncated backup.

    Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can weigh in on whether Kickstart 58 might help clear up that problem.

    What did you wind up having to pay for the cap and getting it installed?
     
  19. pghkirwan

    pghkirwan Member

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    Parts and labor were $10. Took him maybe 5 minutes. Would have taken me at least 1/2 hour.

    cheapest price i found on line for the same capacitor at weisd.com, with the least expensive shipping, was $13.

    My wife is happy now that she/we won't have to sit thru commercials. total down time was ~ 48 hours.
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Congrats!

    I'm sure that you could have gotten the cap online a lot cheaper, but that's neither here nor there, 'cause you made out like a bandit.:D

    Do everything you can to support that shop.
     

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