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Help After Move

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by JPA2825, Sep 18, 2018.

  1. Sep 18, 2018 #1 of 7
    JPA2825

    JPA2825 Member

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    May 15, 2000
    Ft. Thomas,...

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    We recently moved and I'm now trying to recreate my former setup (described below). So far, no love. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    OLD SETUP
    • I think I had a POE filter at the old house. I will go there and check. Not sure.
    • Cable split 2 ways
      • A into cable modem
        • Modem to Linksys router via ethernet
        • Router to TiVo Roamio Plus via ethernet
      • B into tuning adapter
        • Tuning adapter to TiVo Roamio Plus via RF
    • 4 Minis set up in different rooms all connected via MoCA
      • It's possible 1 of the Minis was set up via Ethernet rather than MoCA, but shouldn't matter for this discussion.
    • Everything worked fine.
    NEW SETUP
    • No POE filter currently. Will check. Tech says very good signals. (Maybe "almost too hot" according to him, whatever that means.)
    • Cable split 3 ways
      • A into Spectrum set top box
      • B into cable modem
        • Modem to Google WiFi via ethernet
        • Google WiFi to TiVo Roamio Plus via ethernet
        • Guided setup accomplished via ethernet
        • NEXT STEP will be to go to Change Network Settings and make sure I have clicked "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network." Pretty sure I did this, but I am at work and will have to check when I get home.
      • C into tuning adapter
        • Tuning adapter to TiVo Roamio Plus via RF
    • When I try to connect the TiVo Mini to do guided setup using MoCA, I get an error. Will put the specific error on when I get home.
    • I guess I could put another Google WiFi node next to the TiVo Mini, connect the node to the existing wireless network (created by the 1st Google WiFi) and then run ethernet to the TiVo Mini and try to convince the Mini that it is connected via ethernet. Obviously, I'd rather not use the Google WiFi node for that purpose if I can get the RF cable already wired to perform as it should via MoCA.
    It was sooooo long ago that I set up the Roamio Plus and Minis that I am afraid I am missing / forgetting something. Any help appreciated.
     
  2. Sep 18, 2018 #2 of 7
    mdavej

    mdavej Well-Known Member

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    Aug 13, 2015
    I don't see how your old setup ever worked. Tuning adapter usually doesn't do a very good job passing Moca. Better way is to split before the TA, one leg to TA, the other to Tivo. No RF connection at all between TA and Tivo, only USB. Temporarily could disconnect A from Spectrum box and connect to Tivo. (Hope you aren't planning to keep that Spectrum box).

    You should eventually put a POE filter at your POE and possibly at your TA input as well.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  3. Sep 18, 2018 #3 of 7
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
    A "PoE" MoCA filter, which serves both a security and performance function, is needed at the incoming cable signal's Point-of-Entry to the home -- on the input of the initial splitter encountered by the cable signal, typically in a junction box outside, in a basement or closet. (more info here) This initial split is notably absent from your setup description, including the specs of the coax component(s) interconnecting the various coax runs to your rooms and signal source.

    A MoCA-enabled TiVo DVR must not be coax-connected via a Tuning Adapter's RF pass-through port, as this port severely attenuates MoCA signals. You'd need to use a splitter to connect both the TA and DVR to the coax plant; and you may also need a separate MoCA filter installed on the Tuning Adapter's coax input port, if you find that the MoCA network affects the TA's stability. (more info here) Note, also, that the TA would need to be connected to its DVR via USB; I expect that that was just an oversight or not considered relevant to the network issue.

    It's possible that the absence of the "PoE" MoCA filter combined with use of the TA's pass-through port (and splitters/components not optimized for MoCA) caused sufficient losses to prevent the MoCA connection; and though addressing one or the other could enable the MoCA connection, BOTH (all) need to be corrected to provide the most reliable setup.


    p.s. If you're having hiccups getting MoCA working, and would like to verify that your TiVo boxes' MoCA interfaces are working properly, you can temporarily disconnect the MoCA-bridging DVR from the incoming cable TV signal (losing all TV tuning until the connection is restored) and direct-connect any/each of the TiVo Minis via a short coax cable to the DVR's coax port, and then configure the Mini for a MoCA connection. The Mini should be able to connect as a MoCA client and have full functionality ... aside from the ability to tune live TV, since that's temporarily unavailable owing to the CATV signal disconnect at the DVR. If a Mini can connect via this direct-connect test but is unable to do so at its permanent location, then it would point to a MoCA compatibility issue with the coax plant between the DVR and the Mini's permanent location. (Just be sure to reconnect the DVR to the CATV signal prior to trying any Mini at a remote location, since that disconnect would also block MoCA signals from getting onto the coax plant.)
     
  4. Sep 20, 2018 #4 of 7
    JPA2825

    JPA2825 Member

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    May 15, 2000
    Ft. Thomas,...
    Thanks. I went back to my old house and could not locate a POE filter in the "spaghetti" of cables as it enters the house. (This is a 100 year old house, so they just poked a hole in a window in the foundation to put telephone and cable into the house.) I forgot to check outside before entering the house, but have little hope of it being out there. Funny, I seem to remember putting something like a POE filter inline to the cable when I 1st set up the system.

    If I can't find the original POE filter, I assume I can buy one on Amazon or similar? Will Google.

    As for my new setup, I looked and it does appear that the coax cable routes from the splitter to the TA and then the TA is connected to the TiVo via both USB cable and coax. As I understand the advice above, I should take out that loop of coax and simply run splitter to another 2 way splitter with A from that 2 way splitter going into the TA and B from that 2 way splitter going into the TiVo. Am I reading that right?

    As I get to the weekend, if I haven't gotten any "joy," I may try the direct hookup method described above just to get a baseline.

    NOTE: as I was fooling around, I tried setting specific channels and encryption keys. The last time I set the MoCA bridge on the TiVo Roamio, I went back to Auto and no encryption. Not sure if I made that same change on the Mini. I will definitely try to connect after resetting the Mini to Auto and no encryption to see if that helps.

    NOTE2: since this is a new house, I am just assuming the cable jack at the Mini location is working. It is only a 11 yr. old townhome and everything looks professionally wired into the junction box, so I assume the jacks in each of the rooms work, but maybe I ought to plug the TV in directly to cable to make sure the jack is active.
     
  5. Sep 20, 2018 #5 of 7
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003

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    Yep.

    Correct ... while possibly needing a separate MoCA filter on the input of the Tuning Adapter, if you find that the MoCA network, once active, affects the TA's performance/stability.

    Just make sure it's during a window when there's nothing critical scheduled to be recorded by the DVR, and to reconnect the DVR when finished or any time you'd want to test MoCA back at one of the remote locations.

    Good thing you're not entirely assuming that. Testing the jacks would be worthwhile, especially if MoCA isn't working ... though using a TV may not work if your cable provider doesn't have any analog TV channels present. An alternative is to use a cable modem (when you can afford the Internet downtime), connecting the cable modem directly to a coax wall outlet to see if the modem is able to sync with the provider.
     
  6. Oct 16, 2018 #6 of 7
    JPA2825

    JPA2825 Member

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    May 15, 2000
    Ft. Thomas,...
    OK. Got lazy on this project when I just used of my leftover 3 Google WiFi points to hook up 2 of the TVs. Now I need to use those at my son's house to get his internet back up and working, so I am back to trying to get MoCa to work.

    I have looked at Amazon and seem to have 3 choices (4 if I want to get extreme)
    1 - "TiVo approved" POE filter for $16
    2 - 1 "generic" POE filter with high ratings for $8
    3 - 5 of same model POE filters for $14 (I am only considering this b/c I may need a 2nd POE filter on the Tuning Adapter as discussed above).
    4 - Buy a TiVo Bridge for $70 and just not try to use the Roamio Plus as the Bridge. (Seems wasteful and maybe won't even work so why even spend the $ to try?)

    I did disconnect the TA. Coax now runs from splitter directly into Roamio and only connection from TA to Roamio is USB. (I suspect this means I really don't need the TA. When I remove the USB cable, the picture goes away. Maybe that is because the guided setup expects to see it? Just can't understand hot the TA can work if it doesn't even have RF going into it.) Regardless, this setup did not clean up the problem trying to connect the Minis via MoCa.

    Haven't tested any of the outlets yet. I may have an old Cable Modem to plug in to see if I get a reading.
     
  7. Oct 29, 2018 #7 of 7
    krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Nov 25, 2003
    Something was lost in translation. The TA must remain connected via coax; you just cannot connect the MoCA-enabled DVR via coax to the TA's pass-through port.

    Example:

    TA DVR.jpg ​
     

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