HDMI without HDCP?

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by nsayer, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. nsayer

    nsayer New Member

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    Jan 12, 2005
    This isn't really about TiVo. I do have a couple of DirecTivos at home, but leave that aside for now. I'm posting here because of the HD expertise that I know can be found here.

    Almost before the keynote was over, I ordered a Mac Mini. It can do 1080i output, no problem, and has a DVI connector. I know that I can just buy a DVI-to-HDMI cable. No problem there. I am considering the purchase of a Panasonic CT34WX54. It has an HDMI input. No problem there.

    The problems start because of HDCP. The manual makes the ominous statement "the HDMI input is not intended for personal computers." Well, shoot. The only credible difference between a cable box and a personal computer that I can think of in the context of HDMI is HDCP. Obviously, the mac is not going to be outputting HDCP protected video. I called up Panasonic to ask them if their HDMI input would accept and display unprotected content. I was put on hold for 20 minutes and finally told that they didn't know (as Lewis Black once said, "I wish they'd have just censored in my mouth.").

    So what is the stupid warning in the manual about? Will this TV display 1080i HDMI-without-HDCP content?
     
  2. leesweet

    leesweet TC Special Member

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    Mar 13, 2004
    Northern VA...
    I would assume ("") that any current display with an HDMI input (heck, most DVIs were this way) would require an HDCP source.

    You could just try it... :D
     
  3. Steve Richards

    Steve Richards Member

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    May 6, 2004
    Norwell,MA
    I don't think the HDCP was the reason for the warning, but more so (guessing) they are afraid the images may get burned in ?

    HDMI should be backward compatible to the DVI 1.0 spec for use without HDCP.

    The other issues may be the color space is RGB for DVI and perhaps you can't adjust it for their HDMI (which I think defaults to YPrPb) or perhaps the pixel aren't square and won't give a good text rendition ?

    Don't take this as absolute, it just my thoughts...


    One more thing...

    It could be the DVI out of the computer is DVI-A (analog) which then is not the same as HDMI. I think this is the case for the MacMini which provides a DVI to VGA adapter implying analog.
     
  4. leesweet

    leesweet TC Special Member

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    Mar 13, 2004
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    On reading the HR10-250 manual and recollecting past discussions, looks like I had this backwards, and I remember now from my Vinc Bravo 1, which doesn't do HDCP, either. If your source *has* HDCP, the display needs to have it. If your source doesn't have HDCP, it should work fine.

    The HD TiVo manual says that you need to have an HDCP display, since it does HDCP. But you have a source that doesn't do HDCP.

    The other comments about DVI-A, etc., are also pertinent, though. In the past, most PC users connected to their digital displays via VGA or RGB. If you have 'real digital DVI', you should be fine.
     
  5. nsayer

    nsayer New Member

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    Jan 12, 2005
    I'm really sure the mac mini DVI output is digital + analog. I may have spoken too soon about its ability to output true 1080i timing (1920x1080, 60 Hz interlaced, right?), but I'm 99% sure it will. If the lack of HDCP is not a barrier, then I guess I will have to assume that the warning in the manual is so that some dufus doesn't try to run 1600x1200 @ 80 Hz and wonder why it isn't working.

    Your comment about the HD Tivo doing HDCP is also on point, because another option is to upgrade the living room DirecTivo later, and this panasonic TV definitely does HDMI-HDCP, so that's a good thing. Of course then the problem is that I'll need an HDMI A-B switch. :-/ Maybe I can convert DVI to component somehow and plug the mac into the component inputs if it comes to that.
     
  6. Ed Campbell

    Ed Campbell New Member

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    Jul 13, 2002
    Santa Fe
    nsayer -- I'll be following you around on this one. After 21 years of toiling in the vineyards of M$oft, I ordered a Mac Mini, last night.

    And my Sammy has both DVI and HDMI in.
     
  7. nsayer

    nsayer New Member

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    Jan 12, 2005
    I took a piece of wrapping paper and cut it to the dimensions of a 34" 16x9 picture and held it up for my wife. Her reaction was swift:

    "That's IT?!?!?!"

    I have to say I agree. It was about the height of our 27" NTSC 4x3 and only a little wider.

    Now we're looking at a 42" DLP RP. I cut another piece of wrapping paper that size and we were both much happier, though neither of us is thrilled about the price suddenly doubling, and I'm not entirely content about going from 1080i to 720p being the native display resolution.

    But the good news is that the one we're looking at (It too is a Samsung) has not only both HDMI and DVI inputs, but also a VGA input to go along with two component inputs and a smattering of NTSC inputs. That makes me fairly confident that it is likely to work just fine with the mac.
     
  8. Apr 5, 2006 #8 of 14
    xeon

    xeon New Member

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    Apr 5, 2006
    Is there such a thing as an HDMI or DVI input that does NOT support HDCP? I am thinking of getting a new Sharp Aquos 26". It has HDMI and DVI but does not mention HDCP in any spec I can find online.
     
  9. Apr 5, 2006 #9 of 14
    A J Ricaud

    A J Ricaud Active Member

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Hacienda...
    I'm pretty sure it's HDCP compliant but I recall seeing quite a few posts saying that HD Tivos and Aquos TVs don't play nice with each other.
     
  10. JohnTivo

    JohnTivo Member

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    Carlsbad, CA
    Yes a display can have an DVI input but not be HDCP complaint. These displays were usually the low end models that came out in the last couple of years. I would assume most current model displays with DVI or HDMI are HDCP complaint.
     
  11. slydog75

    slydog75 Not all that sly

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    Warminster, PA
    In fact AFAIK DVI does not support HDCP..
     
  12. JohnTivo

    JohnTivo Member

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    Dec 2, 2002
    Carlsbad, CA
    If you're considering a DLP you shouldn't have any problems connecting it to the MiniMac.

    If you we're trying to connect the CT34WX54 to a Windows based PC, I would think you would be able to get things working with the help of powerstrip. But I do not know of any similair software designed for the Mac. The problem with the CT34WX54 is that it is probably not designed to communicate to the PC what the timmings/settings are for the display. With powerstrip, you could create the necessary timings though...

    Regargless I think you're better off with a DLP anyway.
     
  13. JohnTivo

    JohnTivo Member

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    Dec 2, 2002
    Carlsbad, CA
    Nope. HDCP was initially developed to protect digital content sent through the DVI interface. Initially you could purchase DVI sets without HDCP though. I believe HDCP has always been part of the HDMI spec .
     
  14. slydog75

    slydog75 Not all that sly

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    Jul 8, 2004
    Warminster, PA
    Ahh, thanks for straightening me out.. I was under the impression HDCP was only compatible with HDMI.
     

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