HDMI FAILURE Poll - EVERYONE please respond

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by unixadm, Jul 3, 2004.

Have you had an HDMI Failure?

  1. No failure - In service for over 2 weeks and going strong

    863 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. Had Failure on 1 unit - Made in USA

    223 vote(s)
    11.4%
  3. Had Failure on more than 1 unit - Made in USA

    83 vote(s)
    4.2%
  4. Had Failure on 1 unit - Made in Mexico

    291 vote(s)
    14.9%
  5. Had Failure on More than 1 unit - Made in Mexico

    74 vote(s)
    3.8%
  6. Do Not have HDMI/DVI Connection - Don't know if it works

    421 vote(s)
    21.5%
  1. Aug 14, 2004 #161 of 1437
    ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

    213
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...

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    I just voted in the poll this morning that I have had NO PROBLEMS with my unit, which was bought on Ebay for $1200 and upgraded with a PTV kit with a 2nd hard drive (250GB) giving me about 70 total hours of HD recording capacity. I enjoyed TWO MONTHS of defect-free HD TiVO use on this unit. I view HDMI out on my Sony VPL-HS20 which has HDMI in. However I had NOT REBOOTED IT this entire time and NOT MOVED IT. I think this is a key clue to what is going wrong.

    After I voted in the poll this morning, I decided to re-arrange my system a little and while keeping the HR10-250 on, moved it carefully off the stack, added a DVD player to the stack, and moved the HR10-250 back on top of the stack.

    The **** hit the fan.

    First, I had no audio coming out of the digital audio port. I could get my usual picture on HDMI. To fix the audio, I decided to reboot.

    When I rebooted, I got the startup screen "almost there" over HDMI. Then I got the skittles balls, but there was a slight green tint to the text, as if the skittles had been sitting on the shelf awhile...

    Then all of a sudden I get a frame full of static, then black, then static... repeating forever.

    I unplug and reboot again, and this time no HDMI at all. I go into the menus using the s-video output and try turning on HDMI but get nothing. I reconnect the HDMI cable and nothing.

    Simply by MOVING IT or REBOOTING IT or BOTH... I have screwed up my HDMI.

    Apparently, it is a very sensitive little card. Motion can mess it up. Heat probably messes it up, which would explain why it goes bad for some people over time.

    My PTV upgrade kit did not come with a fan, but it was running fine with 2 hard drives for 2 months. Didn't seem hot really.

    So now I guess I will open it up and wedge some metal against the card to see if I can stabilize its connection to the motherboard.

    If I can't, I'll try to get DTV to replace my unit. I hope the fact that I bought it on Ebay has no bearing. And I assume I can't transplant my modded drives into a replacement unit as the content is tied to the motherboard isn't it? How do I transplant the upgrade?

    What a nightmare...
     
  2. Aug 15, 2004 #162 of 1437
    Todd76

    Todd76 Member

    136
    1
    Jan 12, 2002
    Wilmette, IL
    I would think that any TV with a DVI or HDMI input would accept all four resolutions.
     
  3. Aug 15, 2004 #163 of 1437
    paul01463

    paul01463 New Member

    32
    0
    Jul 26, 2004
    My Panasonic plasma only accepts 480i and 1080i on its HDMI interface
     
  4. Aug 15, 2004 #164 of 1437
    pbolya

    pbolya Member

    427
    0
    Apr 7, 2004
    Sacramento...
    Lots of HD TV displays do not accept 480i over HDMI and some TV's oly accept 720p or 1080i but not both. My Sony plasma accepts all 4 resulutions.
     
  5. Aug 15, 2004 #165 of 1437
    jlas75

    jlas75 New Member

    18
    0
    Aug 15, 2004
    Lansdale, PA

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    HDMI video is NOT working on my DirecTV HR10-250 DirecTV with TiVo...Sysytem information says it's "not connected"...

    Component video works. Any suggestions on how to fix this? Or, do I have to return it for a new one? Please advise....
     
  6. Aug 16, 2004 #166 of 1437
    erehm

    erehm New Member

    12
    0
    Apr 25, 2004
    Bainbridge...
    I received an HD Tivo from Circuit City (CC) a couple of months ago. It's connected as follows:

    CONFIGURATION...

    [HD Tivo HDMI Output]-->[Scaler DVI-HDCP I/O]-->[PIONEER Plasma PDA-5002 DVI (no HDCP) input]

    Almost immediately, the HDMI output would cut out every 1-3 days. The channel that I left the receiver on was somewhat random, e.g., HDNET, HDNET Movies, HBOH, HBO (SD), SciFi, etc. I never watched a PPV event. (It's my understanding that only DirecTV PPV events invoke HDCP....am I wrong?)

    SYMPTOMS...
    1. The HDMI output would cut out, i.e., either a black or snow picture.
    2. Usually the digital audio would still be active.
    3. Commands via the remote control would work for 10-20 key presses and then be non-functional.
    4. The Format button on the front panel was non-functional.
      [/list=1]
      TEMPORARY FIX...

      I would power cycle the box (either by yanking the power cord or cycling the master switch on my power conditioner). It always came back...

      ..until one day it didn't, i.e., the HDMI output was no longer functional. I looked at the Status screen and it said "HDMI Status: HDCP Disabled".

      REPLACEMENT HAS SAME SYMPTOMS...

      I called DirecTV and got a replacement. Less than 3 hours later, same problem. The screen had turned to snow. Power cycle again fixed the problem.

      DIAGNOSIS?

      So do I have the HDMI failure problem? Or is this the expected behavior of a system where the DVI display is not HDCP capable? I.e., after so many HDCP "transgressions", the HDMI port turns itself off?
     
  7. Aug 16, 2004 #167 of 1437
    ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

    213
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    My running theory is that all the HDMI cards, manufactured by Hughes, are defective and should be recalled immediately and replaced.

    From the accounts so far and my own experience, I believe the defects can remain dormant indefinitely until the card is slightly disturbed by:

    1. motion
    2. heat
    3. vibration
    4. changes in HDCP status in program content
    5. changing display output resolution
    6. solar activity
    7. moon phases
    8. butterfly sneezes

    Obviously it is completely unacceptable. I think we deserve to hear from DirecTV on whether or not

    1. they admit to the problem
    2. they have found the cause
    3. they have a solution
    4. how they plan on implementing the solution

    I wouldn't even know where to start a campaign for this kind of thing but since most HR10-250 users are here, this may be a good place to organize a demand for action.
     
  8. Aug 16, 2004 #168 of 1437
    grafals

    grafals New Member

    27
    1
    Apr 28, 2004
    N. California
    I have to think that DTV is extremely sensitive to the problem at some level since every unit that goes back to CC or some other retailer and every unit that they replace directly is money out of their pockets. If someone hasn't gone into their returns whse and noticed a large stack of returned $1,000 units, I'd be mightily surprised. And, I suspect that as the problem becomes more known w/out a resolution, the probability grows that a Samsung, or RCA unit will come out and clean their clock soon. Of course, no matter who produces it, Hughes will get revenue from the licensing. But be that as it may, they can't help but be getting notice in the only place that gets their attention, their wallet.

    I doubt you will EVER get an admission or acknowledgment of the problem. To do so would put them on the hook to repair/replace EVERY unit, defective or not. You will probably see a quiet fading of the problem as new units come out that don't continue to report the problem. That way, the people not using HDMI and those not experiencing the problem won't have claims against them, until enough time passes that the claim is cut off by the warranty expiration.

    I doubt that most HR10-250 users are here. Despite short supply, there are many thousands in the market place now. I would bet that for every 3 or 4 posts to this thread reporting a problem and a return to DTV, there is at least one person with the problem who is content to switch to Component and live with it, not knowing that this thread or the problem exists on a regular basis. Based on what I'm reading, I can't imagine that failure rates could be less than 50%. The problem is too consistent. If there is a mfg or design defect, and the mfg process is the least bit controlled, then one would expect every unit shipped to have a similar problem at one stage or another.

    The fix for DTV is going to be VERY costly. If you want to make trouble for them, don't call DTV, call the rating agencies that track Hughes stock/debt and point out that Hughes is apt to take it in the shorts for this. Especially if they miss production goals for the upcomming Christmas season, which I'm sure they plan to gear up for.
     
  9. Aug 16, 2004 #169 of 1437
    grafals

    grafals New Member

    27
    1
    Apr 28, 2004
    N. California
    I bought the 5 year gty from Circuit City for $89. THey claim that they will ship the replacement in 5 to 7 days, and you don't return the old one until the new one arrives. THey also claim that you can either return to local store or they will pay shipping. Lastly, they point out that if they have to repair/replace 5 times in 12 months, you will get a full replacement with the latest equipment, even if the new equipment is a newer or updated model. Thus, you have kind of a "most current technology" guaranty. I actually "cashed in" on that gty when I bought my 1st big screen about 10 years ago. It was a ProScan floor model I got for 1/2 MSRP. It broke 5 times in about 6 months. So, I got a brand new one that was vastly better than the one I bought. I paid about $2,000 for a brand new $5,000 TV. I had a friend who managed a CC store. His advice, "always buy the wty if it's expensive or new technology. Those usually pay off." He was right in my case. And, this unit is both expensive AND new technology.

    If I understand right, the DTV xtended warranty is a monthly payment of a few dollars. It continues as long as you pay, and ends when you quit. So, if its $2/mo, then in 60 months, you would have paid $120. But then again, it would, I believe, cover ALL of your equipment, including the dish and LNB and your other receivers right? On the other hand, if its $3, then the extra $90 would just about pay for a new SD DVR or LNB. Maybe somebody w/ the DTV xtended wty could chime in and provide the specifics for us all in terms of costs, benefits and quality of service. In fact, it might be a useful thread to start for everyone to give xtended wty info from various retailers and DTV.
     
  10. Aug 16, 2004 #170 of 1437
    grafals

    grafals New Member

    27
    1
    Apr 28, 2004
    N. California
    The forum moderator should consider revising the poll to include a category to recant a vote for no failure. So, if I vote no failure after 2 weeks, then it fails in 4, I can let everyone know. Then, you could subtract those votes from the no failure votes for a more accurate count. I'm becomming suspicious that the actual failure rates MUST be much higher than what the poll indicates. Thanks to standardized parts and assembly lines, if 100 have the defect, then it seems logical that 1,000,000 would have the same problem. Otherwise, you'd have to conclude that the mfg process is inconsistent enough that it wouldn't be logical that so many people would experience such similarities in the first place. (Isn't that chaos theory?)

    I'd also drop the don't know column because it makes it appear that the failure rate is lower than it is. Since your only testing the HDMI, if the HDMI isn't used or the participant doesn't know, then that column is irrelevant. You only want to know the "works" versus the "don't works", not the I don't knows, right?
     
  11. Aug 16, 2004 #171 of 1437
    nash0r

    nash0r New Member

    7
    0
    Nov 18, 2002
    Purchase: 08-14 at Ultimate Electronics
    Manuf Date: 07-28 in Mexico

    HDMI port dead out of the box. Decided to return for money back and wait for an official fix or a different model from other manufacturer. Not worth the crapshoot at this time :(

    Was using the HDMI->DVI cable with a Samsung DLP TV.
     
  12. Aug 16, 2004 #172 of 1437
    Slardybardfast

    Slardybardfast New Member

    15
    0
    Aug 7, 2004
    After being very upset with the DOA performance of the Hughes HR10-250, I returned it to CC for a refund; promising myself that I would not purchase another unit until the problem was fixed.

    I could not keep my word. I ordered another unit from CC online and I just installed it. Guess what? No HDMI output. Again, tech support could not help me.

    Varying the resolution does not matter. No output at any resolution.

    This really sucks.

    OK, I see some posts regarding reseating the daughter card or wedging a piece of plastic some where. I have not seen any details of this or pics. Could someone please give me details on how to remove the card and reseat it.

    Thanks
     
  13. Aug 16, 2004 #173 of 1437
    pbolya

    pbolya Member

    427
    0
    Apr 7, 2004
    Sacramento...
    Do not remove the card in fact do not even touch it. There is a metal pin right next to the card. make sure that it does not touch the card by wedging a separator in between them. Do not make it too tight. You do not wan tot break that pin. Also make sure you are calm and grounded (do not do it right after you talked to a CSR). If it works give us your picture (both before and after). This is my original story with pictures (almost a month now and still works):

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2113154#post2113154

    Of course it might have been that I bumped the card during the upgrade to 63 hours and that is why it went dead and your "virgin" TiVo(s) have another problem altogether but it is worth a try (just make sure you open it with the proper tools so they can not tell from the screws that you opened it).

    I hope it helps.

    Regards,
    Peter
     
  14. Aug 16, 2004 #174 of 1437
    TriscuiT

    TriscuiT New Member

    24
    0
    Jul 15, 2003
    Just bought a JVC HD52Z575 and an HR10-250. The JVC looks beautiful. Hooked up the DTV box via HDMI and things were fine. Set the peanut remote to work the TV volume and power then shut the TV off via the remote to test it. After waiting for the lamp to cool down I turned the TV back on and got SNOW then GREEN then SNOW then GREEN.... You get the idea. HR10-250 made in Mexico with a June build date. Nothing like spending $4500US and not being able to make the pieces work the way they should.
     
  15. Aug 17, 2004 #175 of 1437
    ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

    213
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    I would like to know if ANYONE has duplicated the results of the plastic spacer fix. I suspect it's a freak occurrence that may or may not be related to the inserted spacer at all.

    As for DirecTV, I don't know, but I would guess they don't make any money on the boxes. They just use them to sell more subscriptions, their cash cow. The incoming bad boxes won't cost them anywhere near $1000 each. Most likely they will refurbish all of them with new HDMI cards and get them out to selected customers for free in exchange for an HD package upgrade and a 2-year contract commitment.

    Clearly they were under the gun to release this new product, which had already been delayed. Now we know why.

    Can we get G4/TechTV to interview a PR rep and pressure him with possible negative publicity? Isn't that how these things get fixed quickly? Dateline does it all the time.
     
  16. Aug 17, 2004 #176 of 1437
    falstaffpac

    falstaffpac New Member

    83
    0
    Nov 12, 2003
    I have duplicated pbolya's results. I believe pbolya said he knows of 4 others who have had success with this. I wedged a small silver peice between the pin and the daughter card with the pressure point about 7/8 down the length of the card. I've not had a single problem since.
     
  17. Aug 17, 2004 #177 of 1437
    jlas75

    jlas75 New Member

    18
    0
    Aug 15, 2004
    Lansdale, PA
    I am now on my second HR10-250....same HDMI problem (No picture!!!). So, I am watching through component video until it is fixed.

    Quick question....Does anyone have Comcast Cable HD and DirecTV HD? If so, which pictures looks better? I found that High Definition in Comcast looks a lot better than HD in DirecTV. Any reason why? Both are hooked up with the same component cables (monster) and set to 1080i. I did a test with the baseball game last night on ESPN...Comcast's picture was noticably better!
     
  18. Aug 17, 2004 #178 of 1437
    Toeside

    Toeside Circa Dec 2005

    3,386
    0
    Feb 14, 2002
    St Louis, MO
    I just called in for a replacement. He said it should be here in 2-5 days, but they could be backordered.

    We'll see.

    Craig
     
  19. Aug 17, 2004 #179 of 1437
    erehm

    erehm New Member

    12
    0
    Apr 25, 2004
    Bainbridge...


    1. Sorry to be pushy, but does anyone else have any symptoms like this, i.e., HDMI output stops working periodically but a power-cycle clears it up (at least for a while)?

      /eric
     
  20. Aug 17, 2004 #180 of 1437
    ChromeAce

    ChromeAce Early Adopter

    213
    0
    Sep 20, 2002
    Chesterfield...
    No such thing as a "quick question", especially an off-topic one... but I'll reply anyway...

    Good obervation. When comparing the over-the-air NBC HD feed of the Olympics with DirecTV's HD feed, over-the-air is also much better. That's DirecTV compression for ya. I think it varies based on what kind of bandwidth is needed on the other channels at the time.
     

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