Goodbye Tivo, it's been nice (sometimes)

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by imagexpo, Jan 14, 2021.

  1. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    And even better at $12 or less, effectively, if you’re a Netflix subscriber and get one via the 6-month Netflix credit promo bundle.
     
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  2. Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    Sorry, Im not clear on what the Chromecast does that the Tivo Stream 4K does not. The 4K aggregates content right?

    I also dont understand what YTTV is vs Google TV.

    Thoughts?
     
  3. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    The two devices are similar but they have different content aggregation systems.

    On the TiVo Stream 4K, content is aggregated in the TiVo Stream app, where you can browse through content from several different services, maintain a single "My Shows" watchlist, etc. This app also has a linear channel grid guide that contains the free "TiVo+" streaming channels as well as streaming channels from Sling TV if you subscribe to it. You launch the TiVo Stream app from the Android TV home screen, just as you might launch any other app, OR by simply pressing the TiVo button on the remote. Check out these short tutorial clips to see all this in action:







    On the Chromecast with Google TV, content is aggregated in a new system/UI called Google TV. Google TV *is* the device's homescreen instead of the regular Android TV home screen found on the TiVo Stream 4K and other Android TV devices like the Nvidia Shield TV, Mi Box S, etc. Google TV offers suggested content from across various services, tailored to your likes and the services you tell it you subscribe to. It also has a unified watchlist feature. (You can even add titles to your Google TV watchlist from a Google search results page in a web browser, or see the entire watchlist by Googling "my watchlist.")

    And, if you subscribe to YouTube TV, the Google TV homescreen also has a "Live" tab that features a traditional cable TV-style grid guide for all the linear channels you get in your YouTube TV package. (YouTube TV, as you may know, is simply cable TV service that streams over any internet connection, similar to Sling TV.)

    See the animated screenshot here to see the Google TV home screen in action.

    Here's a pic of its Live tab featuring YouTube TV channels:
    Live-Tab.jpg

    There are various reasons why anyone might prefer one device over the other. But if you subscribe to Sling TV, you'll get a greater degree of integration on the TiVo Stream 4K. If you subscribe to YouTube TV, you'll get a greater degree of integration on the Chromecast with Google TV. (Google says that additional live TV services will be integrated into the Google TV "Live" tab in the future, though.)
     
  4. wizwor

    wizwor Guest

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    Is this Chromecast a completely different product than what launched as Chromecast? My recollection is that that device simply presented content aggregated on another device (FireTV Tablet, for instance) to the television. Does that launch model work the same way (I have one someplace)?
     
  5. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    This new product still uses the familiar Chromecast brand name but it's actually a full-blown Android TV device with its own remote control and on-screen user interface that runs apps itself (much like the TiVo Stream 4K). And like the original Chromecast, it also can be used as a receptor for content you cast to it from apps on a phone or tablet, or from inside the Chrome browser on a computer.
     
  6. wizwor

    wizwor Guest

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    OK. Thanks. I won't go looking for the other -- which I thought was a piece of crap.
     
  7. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    The original Chromecast works well for what it does. There are plenty of folks who prefer to use their phones as their means of browsing for content and then use the phone as the remote control. Very handy for big-screen viewing of your personal photos in Google Photos. Also, if you have Google smart speakers (as I do), then you can just tell it turn on your TV and play music or video there.
     
  8. Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    Thank you very much for this post.
     
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  9. Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    Sigh, I still cant decide what I want. Everytime I research further, I read about problems with the TS4K and also the CCwGTV.

    I am moving again and just bought a new tv - a 65" OLED. My current TV (LG 55") isnt even a smart TV so its a nice step up.
    I loved Tivo for so many years - was using my Premiere XL4 until last summer when I moved then (though the streaming apps on it sucked, I used my PS4 for that. I just cant do tivo/cable card anymore with the endless glitchiness of the tuner adapters and the price.

    My attraction to the Tivo Stream 4K is partly just from always having such a good experience with Tivo equipment for so many years. They did a good job being the best at what they did (in my opinion) for so long. But in some ways, the CCwGTV sounds a bit better and less problematic.

    I need to look into Sling more and compare it with YTTV as I know little about Sling.
     
  10. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    The Stream 4k really has nothing to do with Tivo equipment. They've made that perfectly clear.
     
  11. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    I would encourage you to think about which video service(s) you plan to use. Sounds like you still want a service with live cable TV channels and DVR features. Is that right? Which one(s) are you interested in: YTTV, AT&T TV, Fubo TV, Hulu with Live TV, or Sling? Are you hoping for a service that comes as close as possible to the user experience you're used to with traditional cable plus a TiVo DVR? What are your must-have channels? Here's a handy website, BTW, for comparing the various cable TV services: Suppose... you could design your perfect TV service

    Do you plan to use any other services like Netflix, Prime Video, HBO Max, Hulu, Disney+, YouTube, etc? Do you use free OTA TV and want to access that via your streaming device too?

    If you can tell us what services and user features you value, then we can give advice on what streaming device might be the best choice. It's all kind of a confusing mess for the average consumer.
     
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  12. Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    Interesting website you posted (suppose).
    I guess in short, I dont want to pay for traditional cable TV anymore (or deal with their tuning adapters/cable cards), so I am giving up on my Tivo Premiere XL4.
    I now own a new smart TV and have only used my PS4 for streaming apps so far (the Tivo Premiere is way too slow with those apps.) Obviously I am very used to the Cable/Tivo setup like you mention, but am willing to adapt to something new.

    For live TV, I have been trying out YTTV (thru the PS4). Im fairly impressed with it, I especially like how you can order the channels to your liking, but want to consider other options for Live TV channels that may be cheaper. I dont watch any sports but still like the local channels and CNN and other random "cable" channels.
    For streaming, I use Netflix, Prime, and occasionally Hulu/HBO/Disney+ and Curiosity Stream and I like the idea of these things being aggregated on one screen like these newer streaming devices seem to do.

    Bottom line, I just cant really tell how dramatically different these streaming devices are from one another, even after researching them. It sorta seems like they all access pretty much what I would want, but in slightly different ways that almost SEEM negligible just through research and not having used them. And if they are all costing 30-60 bucks, then price is not an issue for deciding for me.
     
  13. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    You're probably not going to find something you like better overall than YTTV for less money. (The set-up with the most cable-like experience and the best picture and sound quality, and fullest channel packages, would be AT&T TV using their own custom Android TV box and remote, but that's going to cost you a little more money than YTTV, not less. And you may prefer the fact that YTTV lets you keep DVR recordings for 9 months while AT&T TV only keeps them 90 days.) YTTV is $65/mo and so are Fubo TV and Hulu+Live TV.

    To pay less than that amount, you'd need to drop down to Sling. Either of their base packages cost $35/mo, and includes CNN and an assortment of other cable channels, but Sling lacks local channels. So if you went that route, you'd need to use an antenna for your locals, and then an in-home DVR if you wanted to record them. Although, keep in mind that primetime non-sports programming on ABC, NBC and Fox is available next-day on the basic Hulu service. CBS content, including its live local channel, is in the CBS All Access app (soon to be renamed Paramount+). And PBS and CW shows are available same-day and next-day, respectively, in their own free apps, although the CW app includes unskippable ads. All that to say that you may not really need an OTA DVR because those apps allow for on-demand access to major network shows. (And various apps should allow you free on-demand access to at least one of your local station's recent newscasts.) But you'd still need an antenna to watch your local channels live (except for CBS, which you can watch live via Paramount+). Anyhow, if you're interested in using an OTA antenna, with or without an OTA DVR, let me know and we can get into that set of options/questions.

    I think that the TV app on the Apple TV 4K probably does the best job of aggregating content, particularly with regard to offering and updating a unified watchlist that spans lots of different streaming services (which is, IMO, one of its best features). There's also much greater consistency in terms of how the playback controls work (via remote control button presses) and appear on-screen among apps on the Apple TV 4K than is the case for other devices; for the most part, apps conform to Apple's suggested guidelines. But unfortunately, an Apple TV 4K costs about $180, not $30-60, so it's in a whole other price range.

    No device will aggregate content from every service. The TV app on the ATV4K doesn't integrate Netflix (because Netflix refuses to participate). Google TV on the new Chromecast doesn't integrate Netflix Originals but does integrate the rest of the Netflix catalog. It doesn't integrate CuriosityStream either (although that may get added as time goes by; Google TV is still new). I think the TiVo Stream app on the TiVo Stream 4K integrates Netflix (all of it, AFAIK) as well as the other services you mentioned, except for CuriosityStream. I'm not sure, though, how good a job TiVo does in terms of tracking the availability of content titles as they appear and disappear from the various underlying services/apps. I know in the past (with the OnePass feature on traditional TiVo DVRs), they didn't do so well; a show might appear on Netflix but not be reflected in TiVo's database until a few days later. Apple does a very good job with this in their TV app. From the limited amount of time I've spent with Google TV, I'd say it does a pretty good job.

    As mentioned before, among live TV services, Google TV integrates YTTV while the TS4K integrates Sling. Apple's TV app integrates AT&T TV and Fubo TV (and maybe Hulu+Live TV?), although it does not offer a grid-based live channel guide of any kind like the other two do.
     
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  14. Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    @Sequoia225 one of the main differences between YTTV, Hulu Live TV, etc. is which local channels they carry. As I recall YTTV has everything but PBS in most places, but in many towns you can also use Locast to get the locals. Another alternative is over-the-air TV of course, so let us know if you want to explore that. Or is that not a concern?

    Also YTTV and similar services offer "cloud DVRs", but many people record from those services with Channels DVR which is a great TiVo replacement that runs on a local PC, Mac, or NAS and offers clients for Fire TV, Apple TV, Android, and iOS. Which brings up another question: what OS does your smart TV run? Is it something developed by that brand, or is it Android, Fire, Roku, etc? The choice of streamer is a big conversation, and that starts with knowing what you've got there. Or are you happy with the PS4?

    There's lots to explore. You may find the following threads good starting points, and there are many more here with the word "cord" in the title.
    • TiVo Alternatives?
    • SOAK: Tell Me About Your Cord-Cutting Experience!
     
  15. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Locast is a streaming option for live local channels if you live in an area where it's offered. But you'd probably want to "donate" the minimum requested $5/mo in order to get rid of the constant donation nags. And I don't think Locast has a cloud DVR, so it doesn't solve the issue of timeshifting.

    As far as locals offered by the streaming cable TV services, YTTV is actually the only one that offers PBS. It also offers locals for ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and CW. The others (except Sling) generally have those five, but not PBS, although any given service might be missing one or more of the locals in your particular market.
     
  16. Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    Thanks @NashGuy. So hard to keep up with the list of who's got what. I keep looking at all these services regularly, but find they wouldn't save us much if any money due to our cable news and talk addiction. I may soon be approaching Xfinity for a new deal though, and am not sure they'll continue to support CableCARDs with the latest packages, so changes could happen here too.
     
  17. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    If all you *really* need cable-wise are CNN, MSNBC and Fox News, you can get those (along with HLN, Bloomberg, Newsy, and Cheddar) in Sling's $35/mo Blue package. It's also got Discovery, HGTV, Food, A&E, AMC, AXS TV, Bravo, E!, History, ID, Nat Geo, TLC, TBS, TNT, Travel, TruTV and Vice, so you should be pretty well covered on lifestyle/reality/talk stuff too. And Channels Plus supports Sling for their TVE recording feature. It's actually a pretty solid little live TV bundle for folks who don't need ESPN and get their locals via OTA.
     
  18. Pokemon_Dad

    Pokemon_Dad Ruler of Unown UI

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    Thanks! Thinking about it. For the other channels the lack of 5.1 sound would be a drawback if we watched much entertainment that's only on cable. I think we'd mostly do fine with just OTA and streaming plus news/talk on Sling Blue, though sometimes we still get weather interference on OTA so maybe I'd keep basic cable for a while longer. I'm looking forward to seeing if ATSC 3.0 "orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing" is really more robust.

    Edit: Channels DVR is not working well with Sling. That may be why I keep forgetting about Sling as an option. None of the news/talk channels seem to be working with Channels at this time. I know we can use Sling's own cloud DVR, but that further modifies the WAF among other considerations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
  19. NashGuy

    NashGuy Well-Known Member

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    Ah. Bummer about Sling and Channels. As for 3.0's OFDM, yes, more robust transmission that's easier to receive with an indoor antenna and that isn't prone to multipath interference (which is the bane of ATSC 1.0's existence) could actually be its killer feature, not so much its improved picture and sound quality or potential for two-way interactivity via a broadband-connected return path.
     
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  20. Sequoia225

    Sequoia225 Member

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    Its this TV so it looks like its LG's own? "webOS"?
    For years I lived in an area where OTA didnt work, I am not sure if it will work where I am about to live. Im in the middle of a move, so I havent even opened the TV yet - just bought it, and just moving. I would consider getting a digital antenna for the local channels. What would you guys recommend for an antenna?
     

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