Good news!!!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Series 1 - UK' started by crossdynamite, Feb 18, 2011.

  1. Feb 22, 2011 #81 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    There are a lot more than 500 Tivo S1 users who will be left with no service on June 1st.

    Tivo originally sold over 20,000 units and perhaps up to 30,000 (Thomson made up to nearly 30,000 units but how many were never sold is not known). Anecdotal evidence suggests that at least 35% of them and perhaps up to 50% of them are still use (most of these have a Lifetime Sub since those paying monthly were always under more economic pressure to consider more recent equipment with no monthly subscription). Even the thread in this forum that asked owners still using them to post to confirm their use attracted well over 500 registrations. There are many Tivo owners who were recommended to get them by sons or nephews who never ever visit this forum from one end of the year to the other.

    Of the 7,000 to 10,000 units still in use at least 50% will be not in Virgin cabled areas. That leaves 3,500 to 5,000 customers with no Tivo service of any flavour at all. Of the 3,500 to 5,000 in Virgin cable land many do not wish to upgrade at this stage because of Virgin's early adopter pricing. £149 for the new box is not bad but still much more expensive than a basic Sky HD box with a lock in sub but the ongoing level of minimum subscription requirement with the XL package is too high to encourage customers on the M or M+ packages to consider upgrading. Without the cancellation of Tivo S1 service most of them would have hung on until they have a new Tivo without that level of subscription commitment. Of course perhaps that is why some senior Virgin sales person leaned on Tivo to cancel the Tivo S1 service as soon as possible........

    And finally by the way every one of you smug so and sos who have switched to Windows MCE, Sky HD etc because of your obsession with always using the latest thing (eg HD which is so little different from SD as to be of very marginal benefit as I am reminded every time I visit my sister's house where she has a Sky HD box and an HD widescreen plasma tv) or who are getting a new Virgin Tivo and who smugly say "I think Tivo can't be expected to go on with the S1 service" are simply undermining the efforts of those of us who want to go on receiving Tivo S1 service and who are campaigning with Tivo to that effect.:mad::mad::mad:
     
  2. Feb 22, 2011 #82 of 106
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    How many £10 a month payers outside of a Virgin area though? 500 sounds about right, although I don't ave access to your random statistics generator (35%?).

    Longest. Sentence. Ever.

    I'm not sure how MCE (introduced 2004) and Sky+HD (introduced 2006 and with nearly 2m subscribers) count as "early adopter".

    Of course many original TiVo owners were early adopters (£600 for a hard disk recorder in 2000 was not mass market), and many may well have moved on to adopt newer technologies. Particularly the ones with an interest in AV, which TiVo has not really been much use for since screens over 36-inch became commonplace. Both reasons why your suggestion that half are still in use is way out of line.

    Anyway, at the risk of being smug, do tell us about your campaign to have the service continue. Apart from a a couple of posts re-iterating your long held belief that TiVo won't cut the service off, even though they have, it's not clear what these "efforts" of yours consist of? A Pete-patented e-mail to the CEO perhaps, or maybe a phone call - national rate of course, that'll soon have them crawling back.
     
  3. Feb 22, 2011 #83 of 106
    gary cheshire

    gary cheshire New Member

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    Go halves if you like:)

    anymore tivo users in GBJ do you know:confused:
     
  4. Feb 23, 2011 #84 of 106
    dmeldrum

    dmeldrum New Member

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    Well we can all make up numbers, only TiVo know exactly how many S1 boxes are still in use, and they are unlikely to share that with us. We do know that with that information, they decided that it was not worthwhile continuing the service.

    Internet forums are not a good place to do statistical analysis, they tend to skew and polarise the results with those who think a service is great and those who think it is terrible and ignore the silent majority in between.

    However I believe your supposition of how many S1 boxes are still in use is greatly exaggerated. This forums survey is the only factual input we have, and that found less than a thousand. Even if there were another nine boxes for every one identified, the numbers are still tiny.

    I'm glad we agree that the number of £10 per month subscribers is/was tiny. So the point remains, with no revenue stream worth collecting, why should TiVo continue the S1 service?
     
  5. Feb 23, 2011 #85 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    In order to preserve their corporate good name in the UK due to its new use in conjunction with Virgin and equally important in order to avoid causing shockwaves back in the USA or in other markets like Australia about the commitment of the company to continuing to support customers using its older units.
     
  6. Feb 23, 2011 #86 of 106
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    They have clearly evaluated that risk and decided it is either negligible or not worth the cost of the service to negate.
     
  7. Feb 23, 2011 #87 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Perhaps they evaluated the risk incorrectly like the BAA did at Heathrow with snow.
     
  8. Feb 23, 2011 #88 of 106
    TCM2007

    TCM2007 New Member

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    Perhaps, but given the almost total lack of fuss about this outside of this forum, it looks do far as though they were right
     
  9. Feb 23, 2011 #89 of 106
    mikerr

    mikerr TiVoCentral.co.uk

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    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.


    ...that, or just use the replacement EPG after June 1st ;)
     
  10. Feb 23, 2011 #90 of 106
    ramtops

    ramtops New Member

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    I haven't switched to anything up until now, but I do think that Tivo have supported a tiny market for far longer than many of us might have expected. I can't have a new Tivo here, and to be frank, I wouldn't want it - too expensive and too locked down.

    But I will be retiring our Tivo, for which we continued to pay a tenner a month to support the service for ten years or so - we felt was worth it. For us, Tivo's time is over, though it's been just a wondrous piece of kit. I shall really miss being able to use the web browser to set it.

    Your numbers could be wildly off the mark - we just *don't know*, do we.
     
  11. Feb 23, 2011 #91 of 106
    CarlWalters

    CarlWalters Yo Ho TiVo!

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    RG4,...
    marvellous :D - cheered me up no end.
     
  12. Feb 23, 2011 #92 of 106
    spitfires

    spitfires wassock

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    Dylan rools KO?
     
  13. Feb 23, 2011 #93 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    Why will you not be keeping it going if the community effort here makes it possible with our own new EPG service???

    Those who have the numbers at Tivo are at liberty to publish them if they wish to do so to justify their decision.

    At least 50% of Tivos had a Lifetime Sub (the number was published somewhere at one stage) and even though some early adopter types upgraded to other boxes in the main they passed on their still working Tivo box to a friend or relative or continue to use it as a second PVR with another tv in another room in their house.

    I think it is quite reasonable to think that the majority of Tivos with a Lifetime sub are still going as the product was so good people wanted to keep it going and the pre-prepared replacement hard drives have been available for several years now at fairly reasonable prices in the event of hard drive failure. Sky's Tivo customer services section even pointed customers towards those services once their machines were out of warranty if they had a hard drive failure.
     
  14. Feb 23, 2011 #94 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    He is only quoting a well known poet who attended my old school some years before me. But I agree entirely with the sentiments expressed of continuing to fight to keep the service going.
     
  15. Feb 23, 2011 #95 of 106
    dmeldrum

    dmeldrum New Member

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    They could, but I suspect they won't, because they don't have to justify their decision to anyone.

    I disagree, but like you I have no facts to support the assertion.

    My logic is simple, TiVo S1 was taken up by technically savvy early adopters, the bulk of whom have probably contributed to this forum over the last ten years. S1 is an analogue product, whose internal tuner is already obsolete in many parts of the country, and will be completely obsolete next year. The sort of people who appreciate TiVo are those who appreciate TV and technology in general. So they are more likely than the general population to have invested in new TVs and other digital services in the last ten years.

    We do know that a number of TiVo evangelists, myself included, had already retired their S1 boxes prior to this latest news. If a proportion of the evangelists can decide that it is time to move on, then why would we expect anything less from the rest of the S1 owners? I personally took a step down and switched to Virgin V+ box. I knew that I was losing a number of cool features, I knew that it was a poor replacement. But it was integrated, it had three tuners, it was cheaper, it had better picture quality and HD, it was on average more reliable. I'm sure many early TiVo customers reached similar conclusions and went with either a Freeview PVR, Sky HD or BT Vision as popular replacements, or explored MCE and other options if they were technically savvy. I cannot believe your position that the majority of Series 1 TiVos sold are still in active use.

    If there is a hidden army of S1 owners who are up in arms about the closure announcement, why have so few of them joined this forum and posted? Why has the response on other more popular general purpose forums been so quiet? Since it seems that everyone in the world except me are on Facebook, where are the thousands of Facebook users campaigning for S1 to continue?

    My view is that apart from a few hundred keen supporters here, there are not that many S1 TiVo owners in the UK still using the service, and for those that are, most will switch to Virgin if available. If they don't switch now, they will when the price comes down.

    Which leaves a small number, who cannot get Virgin cable, and who will miss out. Which is a shame, but not really big in the grand scheme of things, and something that TiVo have considered and deemed acceptable. We may not like their decision, but at least I can understand how they reached it, and can agree for them it is the right decision.

    Compared to everyone in the country having to upgrade their analogue TVs for digital switchover, the retirement of a niche service that hasn't been sold for eight years is not going to get the attention you desire.
     
  16. Feb 23, 2011 #96 of 106
    Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    But the point you are missing is that Tivo has never discontinued service before on any existing box so this does have huge potential implications for Tivo subscribers across the pond in the USA.
     
  17. Feb 23, 2011 #97 of 106
    alek

    alek New Member

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  18. Feb 23, 2011 #98 of 106
    cwaring

    cwaring VM Tivo User

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    Knaresboroug...
    There are currently (ie at the time of this post) 115 people who have 'liked' the "Save S1 Tvo" page on FB.

    Well said on the rest of your post, too.
     
  19. Feb 23, 2011 #99 of 106
    dmeldrum

    dmeldrum New Member

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    One day, I'm sure that TiVo will discontinue the S1 service in the USA. I don't know how soon that will be, but I do know that the business model over there is very different.

    Tivo USA need to provide the same listings data for S2/S3 customers who are still paying. The S1 data is generally a subset, so the marginal cost is minimal. I am assuming that the billing/support infrastructure for S1 is shared, so again marginal cost is small. I also assume that Tivo have a reasonable revenue stream still from S1 customers, since it is a much larger market.

    So the USA decision criteria is very different to UK.

    The only thing we know for certain is that all good things come to an end, so S1 services will eventually end.
     
  20. Pete77

    Pete77 New Member

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    True. But I suspect that in another 10 years time with most things being broadcast in HD and BBC/ITV Freesat having evolved and improved a lot more that far less people would have felt strongly about the matter.

    I also think that if Tivo were going to kill the service that they should have given more like a year's notice to allow people time to make adequate plans for a replacement service. They clearly knew they were going to kill the service when they stopped taking subs four or so months ago but they chose to hide their planned demise date for the service at that stage.
     

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