Game of Thrones "The Watchers on the Wall" 6/08/14 S4E9

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Shaunnick, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. Jun 9, 2014 #81 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Did you look at the screenshot I posted? There is no mechanism on the inside. Nothing at all on the inside. Anything that lifts (or unlocks) the gate must be on the outside.

    What you say about no mechanism on the inside or outside makes no sense. There must be something to lift the gate. It is lifting in the screenshot I posted. Since there is no mechanism inside, the lifting mechanism is obviously outside.
     
  2. Jun 9, 2014 #82 of 271
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Those are the only ones we saw, even in the aerial shots. So if they have more, they weren't at the "front line"...
     
  3. Jun 9, 2014 #83 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Right. That seems so obvious. But I have gotten the impression, from several incidents now, that the writers and directors of the show do not have any clue when it comes to tactics for primitive battles. Martin himself seems to have something of a clue, but he also tends to skip over the details of the tactics in many cases. That leaves the showrunners to invent the details themselves, and they do not seem up to the task.

    Of course, if there were no gate, then there would be no reason for the Wildings to attack there at all. Just go to some place on the wall far removed from defenders, and then slowly smash through the ice and/or send everyone capable up climbing.
     
  4. Jun 9, 2014 #84 of 271
    tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

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    One more thing: My son plays Clash of Clans on his ipad. Seeing those shots of the armies approaching, especially with the giants, made me think of the Clash of Clans commercials (and that my son would love this episode but he's waaay too young to see this show).
     
  5. Jun 9, 2014 #85 of 271
    stellie93

    stellie93 Well-Known Member

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    This. The Wildlings are "the free folk." They are not going to like law and order. On the other hand, with White Walkers at their back, if you could convince them that they aren't getting through the wall, they might agree to almost anything. Whether they would do as they promised is another question.

    I thought this was a good episode--not the best ever by any means.

    So John is going to kill Mance without a sword? Or any supplies? Or even a hat? :D
     
  6. Jun 9, 2014 #86 of 271
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    It's still a massive influx of refugees. The Westerosis might not like that (though they might not have much choice, either).

    One of the advantages that Mance should have had was that he should have known the defenses used on The Wall (the oil barrels, the scythe, etc). With the exception of attacking the castle with the raiding party from the other side, his tactics seemed rather oblivious.
     
  7. Jun 9, 2014 #87 of 271
    Shaunnick

    Shaunnick Active Member

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    There was.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2014 #88 of 271
    smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Anyone care to offer some spoiler-free Tyrion predictions for the season finale?

    1) Will he live? (and escape)

    2) Will he die?

    3) Will we have to wait until next season to find out?

    I'll be kinda pissed if it turns out to be #2 or #3.
     
  9. Jun 9, 2014 #89 of 271
    Shaunnick

    Shaunnick Active Member

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    The mechanism goes up into the wall.
     
  10. Jun 9, 2014 #90 of 271
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    And most people consider that episode to be the best of the series so far.

    Just because you can't see the mechanism in that screenshot doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If the mechanism is outside the wall, how could the Crows inside the tunnel open and close it from the inside? I think we have to assume that all of the mechanisms are buried in the ice above or on the sides of the tunnel, not outside the wall.
     
  11. Jun 9, 2014 #91 of 271
    Shaunnick

    Shaunnick Active Member

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    That passage has been forgotten about by the Night's Watch. I don't know how Sam found it in the TV show but there was a very specific reason he found it in the books. If you want to know hop over to the other thread for more detail.

    Because Mance and the Wildlings know the WW's do exist and unless they get south of the wall they are all totally f*****.

    There was a time the Night's watch was respected and criminals were given a chance to atone for their crimes by taking the black and serving with honor.

    At this point in Westoros history no one takes it seriously anymore and sees it as a massive community service project to keep the Wildlings out.
     
  12. Jun 9, 2014 #92 of 271
    BeanMeScot

    BeanMeScot Sci-Fi Junkie

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    When Sam requested the gate be opened to let Jon out, he faced the inside of the tunnel and waved his torch. So the mechanism is inside the tunnel. It's just not next to the gate, itself.
     
  13. Jun 9, 2014 #93 of 271
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    Can you discuss this in the "Only-Up-Until-The-Latest-Episode" book thread? I'd be interested to hear about that.
     
  14. Jun 9, 2014 #94 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    No, you can see that it is on the outside. While it is possible there could be some locking mechanism or side-lift mechanism that is partially embedded in the wall, it does not make sense from what we saw, since the giant just decided to lift it.

    Anyway, you can see that the gate goes up in a frame on the outside of the wall. And from the previous screenshot I posted, you can see that there is nothing around the gate on the inside.

    It is just a really stupid design. Obviously done by someone who is not familiar with these sorts of fortifications.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jun 9, 2014 #95 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    No, it is obviously NOT on the inside of the tunnel. This is obvious if you look at the gate from both sides.

    Unless you think the mechanism is magic. Sam signals the magician to spell the gate open.
     
  16. Jun 9, 2014 #96 of 271
    Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Active Member

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    The French Foreign Legion has been composed of outcasts, rejects and criminals for 300 years. [They are a bit more selective currently] They do serve with honor. Almost like the Night Watch, the FFL only serves outside of France itself. In fact, I wonder if GRRM took the FFL as his inspiration for the Night Watch?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion

    Historically, the American film industry portrayed the Foreign Legion as, in the words of Neil Tweedie of The Daily Telegraph, having "a reputation as a haven for cut-throats, crooks and sundry fugitives from justice" and also having many men escaping failed romances.[4] Tweedie said that since the legion had asked few questions of its new recruits, it became "an ideal repository for the scum of the earth."[4] As of 2008, according to Tweedie, the "image as a haven for ne'er-do-wells is largely out of date" since the legion now conducts extensive background checks via Interpol.[4

    Legionnaires were, in the past, forced to enlist under a pseudonym ("declared identity"). This disposition exists in order to allow people who want to start their lives over to enlist, and the French Foreign Legion held the belief that it was more fair to make all new recruits use declared identities.[4] French citizens can enlist under a declared, fictitious, foreign citizenship (generally, a francophone one, often that of Belgium, Canada or Switzerland).
     
  17. Jun 9, 2014 #97 of 271
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    So how exactly do you propose that the Night's Watch are opening closing the tunnel from inside the tunnel or from Castle Black? Do you think they're signalling someone on top of the wall who is then lifting the gate from way up there?
     
  18. Jun 9, 2014 #98 of 271
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Here is why there are little to no defenses on the southern side of Castle Black. I'll spoilerize as I don't think it's been covered in the show, but it has no spoilers of any pertinence.
    Centuries ago, one of the Lord Commanders of the Night's Watch turned bad and became a despot. At that time, Castle Black was as strongly defended to the south as to the north. It took years and a huge battle to defeat him. The leaders of Westeros decided to remove most all defenses to the south, so no Lord Commander would ever be able to do that again.
     
  19. Jun 9, 2014 #99 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Who knows? The design is absurd.

    A reasonable design either has the gate on the inside, or else going into a cavity in the wall. This one had the gate and the side channels on the outside of the wall.
     
  20. Jun 9, 2014 #100 of 271
    Shaunnick

    Shaunnick Active Member

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    Done.
     

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