Game of Thrones "The Watchers on the Wall" 6/08/14 S4E9

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Shaunnick, Jun 8, 2014.

  1. Jun 9, 2014 #61 of 271
    Dawghows

    Dawghows Liberal Elitist

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    I think it would be interesting to read the books one character at a time. I don't think I'm likely to ever invest the time into it, but I think it would give a different perspective on some things.
     
  2. Jun 9, 2014 #62 of 271
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Just to be clear (and I know you're talking about during the battle, and not afterwards), there is a difference between who is next in command during a Lord Commander's reign (battle events or otherwise), and who becomes the next Lord Commander. Each Lord Commander has his Chief of Staff, assistants and whatnot. These pertain both in day to day life as a crow, and during battles.

    But if the Lord Commander dies, there is no automatic succession. There may be a temporary LC (probably whoever was CofS), but only until an election. The Night's Watch elects its own Lord Commander. So upon Thorne's death (did we actually see him die?), Janos Slynt would probably become the temporary head, with elections to be scheduled. If anyone survives to vote.
     
  3. Jun 9, 2014 #63 of 271
    tivoboyjr

    tivoboyjr Unregistered User

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    I loved it! I was ready for some action. I think the dialog on this show is top-notch, the political and family drama stuff is great, but I was ready for a battle and this has been building up for a long time and had to happen.

    I'll take this episode any day over some of the other storylines that (to me) have gotten tired and boring (Theon, Bran, Arya, Dany, etc). A week without Reek is a good week. Maybe at some point the Bran storyline will become interesting, but it hasn't happened yet. I'm an Arya fan but she and the hound have been wandering around forever. I didn't miss her this week. I love the Khaleesi more than life itself, but mostly when she is kicking ass and making speeches about kicking ass and not so much when she's trying to "rule" and discussing dead goats. And we had to know that the Tyrion storyline would be held out for the finale.

    Yes, most of the people in this episode were nobodies who I barely recognized, but the Wall and the Wilding invasion is a big story. Maybe THE big story in the grand scheme of things. Part of the appeal of the GOT story to me is that all of the cool political stuff happening in King's Landing doesn't really mean anything because of the looming Dragons vs Ice Zombies showdown.
     
  4. Jun 9, 2014 #64 of 271
    pendragn

    pendragn Well-Known Member

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    As it's bee said before, the show runners know how the whole story ends. Whenever there is a seemingly disproportionate amount of screen time spent on a character or event I assume it means they know it's going to be important to the whole story later. I assume that with this too.

    Throughout the series the phrase, "Winter is coming" has been very prevalent. The wildlings are united against the wall because as bad as getting killed by the Night's Watch is, something worse is coming and they want to get away from it. It's not much of a stretch for me to believe that the "something worse" will be important to the story going forward.
     
  5. Jun 9, 2014 #65 of 271
    cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    This show has too many off-screen battles. Glad we saw the entire battle in this episode. We get palace intrigue every episode. It was time for some butt kicking.

    I was all "Go, direwolf, go!" when Sam freed him from the cage. Then he started eating the first guy he killed and just stayed there instead of moving on. I kept expecting him to help Jon out but that was his only screen time.

    Why would the side with the 1,000:1 advantage withdraw? They had that advantage at the battle's start then it looked like they killed at least 50 Castle Black guys.
     
  6. Jun 9, 2014 #66 of 271
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Well, they failed at going over the Wall, and they failed at going under the Wall (losing their big guns in the process). So at that point, their only option was to stand there and let the Watchmen rain arrows down on them, or withdraw and regroup, and try to come up with a new plan.
     
  7. Jun 9, 2014 #67 of 271
    Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Active Member

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    http://www.wired.com/2014/06/game-of-thrones-battle-castle-black/

    Well, that was no Battle of the Blackwater. Much like in the penultimate episode of Season 2, Game of Thrones put its kaleidoscope of perspectives on hold to focus in on a single, massive event: the Battle of Castle Black. But while this episode may boast the same director and some similar visual spectacle, it sadly lacked the heft that made “Blackwater” one of the finest episodes in the series.

    Demanding a full hour for one storyline from a show like Game of Thrones—especially when there are so many other compelling plotlines to follow—can seem like an act of hubris, but in “Blackwater,” Peter Dinklage’s riveting performance as Tyrion pulled it off with aplomb. Sadly, we have no equivalent performance to anchor the long-awaited showdown between the Night’s Watch and the Wildlings: Jon is no Tyrion; Kit Harrington is no Peter Dinklage; and the supporting cast of Sam, Thorne, Pyp and Grenn are no Joffrey, Cersei, Sansa and the Hound. As necessary as the battle may be to the larger story, it comes across as “important” far more than “interesting,” a bit like mandatory history homework.

    Yes, there were some stirring moments—from the falling of the scythe to Alliser Thorne’s surprising turn into an actual hero—but it never coalesced into anything larger than those moments. Rather than the overwhelming, Helm’s Deep-style siege of 100,000 men against 100 it promised, we got a big fight writ small—less an epic battle than a gritty, claustrophobic sortie hacked out in tunnels and courtyards. It’s also a fight with far less significance than we might have hoped. Unlike the crushing defeat of Stannis at the Blackwater, this battle ends with Jon’s buzz-killing observation that it was little more than a minor setback for a foe that is still overwhelmingly likely to kill them all—a rather disappointing payoff for an episode that was already Blackwater-lite.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2014 #68 of 271
    cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    Was that their only giants and mammoths?
     
  9. Jun 9, 2014 #69 of 271
    DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    Overall, I was a little underwhelmed. Didn't really like the changes from the book. But I did think the visuals were pretty spectacular.
     
  10. Jun 9, 2014 #70 of 271
    PotentiallyCoherent

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    What if instead of killing Mance, Jon teams with him to take the North from Bolton?
     
  11. Jun 9, 2014 #71 of 271
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    He's as much of a hero of King's Landing as King Joffrey.
     
  12. Jun 9, 2014 #72 of 271
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Because...

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Jun 9, 2014 #73 of 271
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Also, all of the machinery for the gate, including the lifting mechanism, seems to be OUTSIDE the tunnel. The engineer who designed that needs to be fired. Or iced. Or something.

    [​IMG]

    Fortunate that the giants and the other wildings seem to be particularly stupid. Why did they waste time with the mammoths pulling at the gate? All they had to do was manually operate the unlocking and lifting mechanism that is presumably just outside and above the gate.

    Of course, the defenders in the tunnel were not much better. While the giant was charging, instead of turning him into an arrow pincushion or sticking spears and swords through the gate to impale him, they just stood there chanting while the giant rammed the gate.
     
  14. Jun 9, 2014 #74 of 271
    tlc

    tlc Active Member

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    I don't know about taking the North, but I'd like to see some alliance against the WW. The wildlings are people after all. And it looks the Men in Black could use some help with the wall and there's lots of room in the North. OTOH, the raiding recent raiding was pretty nasty. (It made Ygritte pretty irredeemable for me.)

    I really hope they resolve the Tyrion thread next week. That's too big of a cliff to hang on. There was no sign of Tyrion in the "scenes from next week". :(
     
  15. Jun 9, 2014 #75 of 271
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    And why did the Night's Watch forget about the secret passage that the Samwell and Hodor et. al, used?

    Somebody remind me why Mance said, "I told them that our survival depends on going south." Because "Winter is coming" and/or the White Walkers?
    And the Wildlings were people who lived in the north until the realm took their land chased them north of the wall? Why were they chased?

    And the whole Nights Watch system: "You're a criminal, so you will be exiled to join the clergy commandos that protect us all and take an oath that you are required by your honor to obey. So they depend on outcasts, rejects, and criminals to serve with honor?
     
  16. Jun 9, 2014 #76 of 271
    pendragn

    pendragn Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe there is a mechanism inside or outside of the gate. I'm pretty sure the gate is opened from inside. I seem to remember scenes earlier with someone on the wall seeing the Rangers come back and shouting down to open the gate. I don't think there's a lock or keypad on the outside. :) I think the mammoths were trying to pull it off completely, but were stopped by the mammoth BBQ (I love that phrase). That weakened or broke the mechanical pieces enough that the giant could lift the gate. That's the way I took it.

    I think they were scared. The one was using the chant to break them out of their paralysis. Chanting was part of their defense, per se.

    The Wildlings have made it pretty clear that they don't like kings, so I think that would be a tough, though not impossible, alliance.
     
  17. Jun 9, 2014 #77 of 271
    pendragn

    pendragn Well-Known Member

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    "Winter is coming" has a couple of aspects. Yes, it's going to get colder, but that's not the real threat to the Wildings, or the Westerosi. When Winter comes the White Walkers/Others come too. The Wildlings aren't trying to get away from bad weather, they're trying to get away from scary, baby stealing, undead folks.
     
  18. Jun 9, 2014 #78 of 271
    MonsterJoe

    MonsterJoe Travels for Food

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    Yes there was.
     
  19. Jun 9, 2014 #79 of 271
    Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Well-Known Member

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    Overall I guess I liked the episode, but I spent a lot of it cringing over the total lack of tactics from the Night Watch.

    A decently trained unit along the lines of a roman legion would have slaughtered the wildlings as they swarmed into the interior courtyard.

    Although like most fight scenes in tv shows, it's hard to tell whether the uncontrolled melee is just because that's what's easy to film, or what the directors want, or if that's suppose to actually reflect the lack of coordinated training on the part of the characters.



    Not to mention that the southern defenses of Castle Black are a bad joke. There are reasons that castles have arrow slits and not windows large enough to climb through. And don't even get me started on that tunnel; I've hated it's massive vulnerability since the first episode that showed it.

    If I was designing that wall I'd put a low (comparatively) outerwork of defenses north of the wall and you'd have to winch men and horses down from the top of the wall to the north side. (I expect many of the horses used for patrols would just normally be kept in the sacrificial northern outerworks.

    100,000 men show up and you just abandon the northern outerworks, pull back up to the top of the wall and drop things on any giants or mammoths trying to pull down or smash through hundreds or yards of solid ice.

    <oops, got myself started on the tunnel>
     
  20. Jun 9, 2014 #80 of 271
    DUDE_NJX

    DUDE_NJX Well-Known Member

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    He's present in the preview, if only for a second.
     

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