Game of Thrones 8x05 "The Bells" 5/12/19

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Rob Helmerichs, May 12, 2019.

  1. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    ...although there's a difference between murdering enemy civilians and murdering your own people...

    Not much of a moral difference, but a pretty massive practical difference. She will now be hated forever by the people she claims to rule.
     
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  2. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Then I guess a good portion of folks here and online reviews that I've read haven't been paying attention. We know her foibles from watching. We know she was always laser focused on getting back the throne, but, we've also been given a Dany vs. Cersei choice and Cersei being so despicable throughout the series, even though we might not have liked everything Dany has done, we were rooting for her to win the game. I have only read the first book and part of the second, so maybe there's more in the books that would make me not want to root for her.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  3. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    The Jamie arc bothered me, and would have bothered me less if he hadn't "led on" Brienne. In the end though, I think they nailed it that he and Cersie die together (and I assume they are dead, I'm sure someone will come up with a theory that they escaped somehow like Euron rising from the sea).
     
  4. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Tyrion was hoping the Lannister army would stop fighting and - along with the citizens - rebel against Cersei and ring the bells to surrender. Which is exactly what happened, actually. His only hope was that Jaime would take Cersei away. He never expected her to surrender.

    The Hound and the Mountain did NOT die by fire. Maybe the Mountain did since he didn't seem to die easily; but I'm 100% sure the Hound died by landing :p

    I was half-expecting the Mountain to become the next version of the Night King...something undead that man created, albeit somewhat accidentally.
     
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  5. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Yes. A thousand times YES.

    Yes. A thousand times YES.

    Sorry, clicking "like" just isn't enough for me sometimes! :D
     
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  6. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    They want to believe it. That was clear in the banquet of the previous episode. Everyone wanted to celebrate Jon as the victor of the fight and everyone seemed to be looking to him as a leadership figure. The claim, even with the thin support that it has, gives them the justification.
     
  7. cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    I don't think this is fair. You can root for a character through the numerous hints of her flaws. Wanting her to be good doesn't mean we weren't paying attention.

    For those of us who watched too much pro wrestling as a kid, this was Dany's heel turn. I can almost hear the wrestling announcer wailing about her turn to evil in a "Oh, the humanity!" Hindenburg voice during her razing of King's Landing.

    As angry as people seem to be about Dany's heel turn, I'll be upset if Jon, Arya or anybody else kills Dany next episode. She has a nuclear powered, flying Death Star that she's not afraid to use. They have swords. It'll be cheap if Jon ends up killing her because he wuvs her or any other sentimental crap. She's Kim Jong Un now and woe unto anyone who crosses her.
     
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  8. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    And he's a man. And he's from Westeros. And he didn't murder civilians out of anger for not loving him.

    Sometimes, people just need an excuse to do what they want in the first place. In this case, the excuse is actually true but I suspect that - for many of them - it won't matter if it's true or not. That's the game.

    The Game of Thrones.
     
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  9. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    If Dany is killed, it will be Tyrion that does it.
     
  10. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say. I don't think any of us would have predicted a week ago that Cersei gets taken out by a pile of rocks.
     
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  11. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    Knowing what we know now, I'd say the better analogy would be Stalin. We rooted for her because she had the best opportunity to get rid of the evil queen (and her evil family), but now that she' done that, she wants HERS, and that puts her at odds with are real heroes, the Starks. We still rooted for her, but now she's the enemy.

    Also the Death Star was eventually destroyed in Star Wars. We've seen TWO dragons go down. They aren't invincible.
     
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  12. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Although while they've clearly laid the foundations for her recent actions, she has been largely portrayed in a sympathetic light...which I take as the tribute to the quality of the writing in the earlier seasons. She was likable and sympathetic enough that we were willing to overlook her obvious and deeply-rooted flaws.
     
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  13. cheesesteak

    cheesesteak Meh. TCF Club

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    Lenin may have been the better analogy. In this episode, at least, the Death Star was invincible. It all depends on how the author wants to write it.
     
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  14. TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    I think Drogon was about right this episode. Last episode is the one that made no sense to me.
     
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  15. dcheesi

    dcheesi ...I'm not.

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    Once again, I think that the writing here suffered mightly due to the plot "fast forward". I can totally see how Dany's character could have developed in the direction she did --it just would have taken a lot longer to get there in a way that felt natural.

    Basically, when she was conquering liberating all of those cities in Essos, she was gracious and magnanimous because the cities themselves didn't matter to her --the were just a means to an end. As long as she gained resources for her military quest, the rest was superfluous; thus, she was able to remain calm and rational for all but the most direct attacks against her.

    Meanwhile, she figured out early on that it was the oppressed common folk (slaves etc.) that were her "base", and the more she played to them, the more they loved her. So naturally she did everything she could to do right by them. I honestly do think that she cared for them, but who knows how much of that was true compassion, and how much was reciprocation for the adoration she felt from them?

    As soon as she got to Westeros, all of her brother's (and others') childhood whisperings took hold, and a sense of (literal) entitlement and "destiny" kicked in. On some level, she expected to be hailed as a liberator, and as the rightful queen, even more so here than anywhere else. Instead, she got a public that, while certainly weary and downtrodden, didn't feel particularly oppressed or enslaved, and didn't attribute their personal woes quite so uniformly any particular political power. Rather, they were weary of the endless cavalcade of kings, and beyond caring who sits on the throne. Thus, her usual "liberator" schtick fell utterly flat.

    I think that might be why she went after civilians and the city in general. As much as she was personally mad (ha) at Cersei, that's the sort of challenge and affront that she's dealt with before. Fundamentally, she was even more upset at people of Westeros, for failing to rally to her cause. The one place that should have loved her most, instead loves her the least.
     
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  16. MikeekiM

    MikeekiM Palindromer

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    GoT is one of the few episode threads that I try and read from post #1 (and this episode is no different)... A lot has been said that I agree with (and not)... Not much left to be said, but here are a couple of comments:

    1. Cercei's Death - Cercei didn't deserve the touching death that she received with Jamie. The only way I can justify the touching scene was that perhaps Jamie deserved the scene.

    2. Writing versus Film Making - A lot are claiming (here, and throughout the internet) that the writing is so bad. Lots of good points are being made regarding the destruction of years of character building, and I agree with a lot of what has been said. Recognizing that, I would say that bad writing does not necessarily equate to bad film making. I thought the film making was pretty intense and engaging... At least for me and the people I was watching with, it was!
     
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  17. TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Sure, she was likable back when she agreed to chain up her dragons because they killed one innocent person or even back one season ago when she said she didn't want to be a queen of ashes. As far as foundations, sure, I mean they literally showed ashes raining down in the red keep in season 2 and all (and had the aforementioned line)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  18. kaszeta

    kaszeta $nullstring TCF Club

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    To the folks that named their daughters Khaleesi, I’m so sorry.

    To the folks that named their cats Khaleesi... well played.
     
  19. uncdrew

    uncdrew Annie 2.0

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    Yup.

    It's war. Innocents die. Not just in fantasy war, but in real life war.

    I don't believe Dany knew Cersei was in the keep. Of course that's what you'd suspect, but of course the concept of intel just doesn't exist this season. If I was Cersei there were many moments when I would have headed out of the keep, as that was such an obvious target. I think Cersei would rather die than surrender (especially to Tyrion and Dany) but she also told Jaime "I don't want to die".

    Ok, you won't surrender and you don't want to die? Uh, perhaps have a better back up plan? Sheesh, there were so many scenes where she saw it was over. Q told her the fleet and scorpions were all destroyed. She watched Drogon systematically torch Kings Landing. If she wanted to live, she should have left the keep much earlier. Especially since Dany should have attacked ships first, scorpion second, keep third.
     
  20. TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    I don't buy it. Her motivation was to instill fear in Westeros, not to do strafing runs to make sure Cersei was dead. They couldn't have been any more clear about that to me. She didn't "go mad" or decide she better get Cersei or make a minor mistake. It was a choice she made intentionally and knowingly.
     
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