Game of Thrones 8x05 "The Bells" 5/12/19

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Rob Helmerichs, May 12, 2019.

  1. May 13, 2019 #81 of 553
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Tending toward impulsive action and violence is a far cry from an hours long campaign of merciless slaughter of innocent people after having already won the throne. Especially an episode after wanting to give Cersei a chance to surrender to avoid accidental killing of innocents during warfare.
     
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  2. May 13, 2019 #82 of 553
    MacThor

    MacThor Not Pictured

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    The stupid, it burns.

    It burns them all.
     
  3. May 13, 2019 #83 of 553
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But she never wanted to do that (give Cersei a chance to surrender); she wanted to just attack and kill anybody who happened to be in the area. She had to be talked into it, and you could tell that she didn't believe it would work and just did it basically to make her advisors shut up.
     
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  4. May 13, 2019 #84 of 553
    Anubys

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    Yes. A thousand times YES. I was more certain of this than any other theory I had about the show.
     
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  5. May 13, 2019 #85 of 553
    Anubys

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    and - when she agreed to do it - she said it's only because it's a good PR move.
     
  6. May 13, 2019 #86 of 553
    stark

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    I was hoping that when Qyburn came the final time to lead Cersei away from the Red Keep, that we would find out that he was Arya in disguise.
     
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  7. May 13, 2019 #87 of 553
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    She didn’t think it would work but explicitly stated she still needed to give it a chance to avoid the killing of innocents.
     
  8. May 13, 2019 #88 of 553
    Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey TCF Club

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    You hit the nail on the head. The episode, if you took it out of context was amazingly done. I was sitting there thinking, that is what it has to feel like to be in a bombed out city. I think the Arya scenes were poinient in that respect. But I had a big "Lost" vibe with the last couple of Episoes, especially with Dany. We spent the last bunch of seasons rooting for her, and in the end, she ends up being as big a a-hole as the rest of them. It has felt like I was rooting for a different person. I guess death of loved ones at the hand of your enemies can do that to you, but still, to destroy King's Landing for really no apparent reason made little sense to me coming from the Dany we knew up until recently. Heck, does the Iron Throne even exist anymore? What is she even going to gain by it?

    So I have a theory based on a comment from someone who'd seen the whole season and mentioned about the callbacks to season one. The opening scene, to me, was telling. You see Varys writing down that Jon is the rightful heir to the throne (he burns it at the end, but this is Vary's, so i think it's possible he sent his little birds out to some folks who didn't know). We also know that Tyrion, Sansa, Aria, Bran and of course, Jon know Jon's true identity. I can see Jon confronting Dany on the massacre and her arresting him (we know that Greyworm is on Dany's side, that's clear). During the ensuing trial (if there's one) one of the above mentioned who knows will end up rescuing Jon. Maybe Arya does. I haven't decided yet who will ultimately kill Dany, might be Jon, might be Sansa or Arya. Tyrion will ultimately defend Jon. Ultimately, I think the Seven Kingdoms have been destroyed, they will be independent, with Jon being King in the North. So a lot of this is a call back to what Ned found out in S1 and ultimately it will follow that similar pattern.
     
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  9. May 13, 2019 #89 of 553
    LordKronos

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    Well, the boat is probably still there. And he knew they'd be heading through the tunnels and if the tunnels are all collapsed, he could probably 95% confident.

    Did we specifically see grayworm do something bad. I guess he threw the first spear at the surrenderred soldiers, but at least we didn't see him hurt any civilians, did we?

    Season 7. Other than the 2 Tarleys that would kneel, Dany showed forgiveness to every other soldier/Lord who was actively fighting against her. This was killing people who werent opposed to her...just helpless and seeking protection under her enemy (because really what else could they do, flee into the hands of the invading force and hope they were kind? Doesn't seem like a sound plan)

    I had a similar thought. When Jamie got locked out and we saw him run off and Tyrion kept looking at the bell, I thought Jamie was going to ring it to cause some confusion and delay things until he could find a way in.
     
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  10. May 13, 2019 #90 of 553
    uncdrew

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    Yeah, the bells confused me some. Cersei doesn’t surrender. They’ve made that clear. She’d die before she surrenders, and the only reason Cersei would ring the bells is to attempt one last trickery.

    They’ve fallen for Cersei’s lies and deceit time after time after time. If they had stopped fighting after the bells rang that would have been the dumbest part of this entire show.
     
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  11. May 13, 2019 #91 of 553
    smak

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    I think it was more she wanted people to say that she did try to avoid it. She didn’t really care One way or the other


    -smak-
     
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  12. May 13, 2019 #92 of 553
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    I thought we were to infer that Cersei did eventually surrender?

    As far as Dany goes, I’m fairly confident D&D were told what would happen here and did their best crap TV writing to transform her into a madwoman in the same way Lucas did with Anakin. Both were vomitous. I can only hope we see that actually she ate Varys poison and snapped because of that.
     
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  13. May 13, 2019 #93 of 553
    Tony_T

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    IIRC, It was the citizens that were to ring the bells and open the gates (but the gate was opened by Dragon before the bells)
    Was it Jamie who rang the bells?
     
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  14. May 13, 2019 #94 of 553
    speedcouch

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    That was the most bloated, monotonous episode ever! Way too long fights that went on and on and on! I could care less about 20 minutes of those two brothers fighting who were only minor characters and Arya getting knocked down and getting up time after time. And Cersi deserved a much more gruesome ending.
     
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  15. May 13, 2019 #95 of 553
    photoshopgrl

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    This is where I am with it all. I would have cheered her on if she headed right for Cercei but that was just too much, too methodical of mass murder. There is absolutely no way she lives after this. Shame.

    I really had issue with this as well. But it doesn't matter if she finds out he freed Jaime my favorite little man is Dracarys next, which I have a feeling is how his fate ends. :(

    I talked to a friend I got watching this after the showed aired and this was the first thing he asked me and my answer is yes. I think had Jon not rejected her, she may have felt she had more to hope for.

    This.

    As I said before I'm not going to complain too much going forward. I've resigned myself to being unhappy with most of it so here are the moments I did like! (probably repeating other people's thoughts/comments as well)

    I hated that Jaime left Winterfell but once they had him do that his ending with Cercei really was the only way it could go to have any sliver of satisfaction for me. Plus his scene with Tyrion was amazing. That hug was just something. I proper got choked up and had to pause to grab a tissue. Cleganbowl was very satisfying and them both dying by fire was somehow really the only way that could have gone. Jon seeing all Dany's men and his own go absolutely nuts was heartbreaking because he was so helpless to stop any of it. Then seeing it all from Arya's point of view was just wow. There were a number of times I really started thinking that was how she would die so I'm glad I was wrong.

    There is only one way for Dany to die IMO and that's by Jon killing her. And they'll probably do some "I forgive you/love you" scene where he embraces her and stabs her because how else would that happen without Drogon burning him alive? Or maybe he still will. Maybe they both die together and Sansa rules what's left of Westeros. I kind of hope that if Tyrion lives he goes to join Sansa.
     
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  16. May 13, 2019 #96 of 553
    Tsiehta

    Tsiehta Active Member

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    IMHO, if you've been rooting for Dany throughout this show, you haven't been paying attention.
     
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  17. May 13, 2019 #97 of 553
    tlc

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    I took it as civilians or surrendered soldiers deciding to ring the bells, not Cersei.

    So, the smart think would be to take out Drogon first. So that'll never happen.
     
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  18. May 13, 2019 #98 of 553
    Rob Helmerichs

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    I was half-expecting Jaime to do that to Cersei.

    I don't think either of their character arcs resolved well at all. Jaime basically threw away all the character development he's gone through since the show began, and Cersei...

    Well, OK, Cersei's character development has consisted mainly of her inner rot becoming outer rot. But even so, crying in the basement doesn't seem like a very Cersei way to go out.
     
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  19. May 13, 2019 #99 of 553
    Steveknj

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    I get this and I've been waffling back and forth. On one hand, yeah, those are a lot of innocent deaths. On the other hand, the US dropped two bombs on Japan, killing hundreds of thousands of people (and one that may or may not have been necessary). Why? To make sure that Japan surrendered. I guess Dany could have thought that ringing the bells was a ploy by Cersei to lure her in for slaughter, or that she HAD to make sure that she was dead and that's the only way. This isn't 21st Century US, it's medieval times (well fictional anyway), and the methods of communications wasn't exact.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  20. photoshopgrl

    photoshopgrl Nerd Fashionista TCF Club

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    I thought it was right. She's always been the winner because she's always been able to stay ahead of her enemies and find a way to kill them. Like the rest of us/them on screen Dany flipping out like she did was not something Cercei ever thought would happen. She truly thought her army/scorpions were enough. As Qyburn kept telling her they were gone she got more and more worried. Left to die alone and then seeing Jaime she finally let down that steel guard in defeat.
     
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