Game of Thrones 5/22/16 "The Door"

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by Rob Helmerichs, May 22, 2016.

  1. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    C'mon. There was a joke on SNL, I think, from Eddie Murphy, "What has 4 legs and goes hodedo! hodedo?"
    GRR remembered that.
     
  2. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Would it be dumb to ask why a cave has a corridor that leads to a door?
     
  3. john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    Probably designed by the same blacksmith who did the tunnel / gate through the Wall, and the collars for the dragons. That guy really got around, after all.
     
  4. Robin

    Robin Impolite arrogant woman

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    And the myriad of doors on the dragons' lair.
     
  5. Ereth

    Ereth Unemployed Bum

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    I never said it was a compliment. I just didn't realize that anybody had considered it to be an insult.

    I *still* think that this particular debate, about a fictional language, in a fictional universe, spoken by people who never existed, and the author himself did not bother to create a language for, is pedantic, precisely because someone is finding specific uses of words and arguing that (a) no other language has those words, (b) no other languages *could* have those uses, (c) no translation could possibly substitute because the words are plot-specific, and (d) this proves that the characters on this fictional world are speaking a language specific to our real world.

    That seems, to me at least, to be finding tiny little nits and trying to use them to piece together a reality in a world where that reality doesn't fit, just for the sake of appearing smarter than everybody else in the conversation.

    Doesn't that fit the description of "pedantic"?

    The reality that I see is that these are choices the author made for storytelling purposes. He need to show Davos learning to read. If you have to have someone learn to read, you need a scene where they don't read, you need another scene where they read poorly, and another scene where they read better. This is the progression you must have to develop this scenario. Now, it's even better if the thing you have them read provides information to the reader, background stories, some exposition in a way without having to provide a wall of exposition without context. Even better if the thing they have to read provides insight to the character themselves.

    And how do you show that middle moment? How do you show "reading poorly"? You have them stumble over hard words. You have them mispronounce something. But if you just type "this is a mispronunciation" then the reader will read the word pronounced correctly and be confused by your scene because the character is now informed they mispronounced it. So you have to spell something out, in a way that the reader can recognize that it's been mispronounced so they won't be thrown off by the scene. And the easiest way to do that is to use a word they know but that they know is spelled differently than it's pronounced so they can be "in on" the scene when your character mispronounces "ka-nigg-it" and they can leap ahead and know he meant knight but didn't read well enough to know that word yet.

    And that's why that scene is there, not because George is laying clues for us that the characters are speaking English, but because we read it in English and he had to have a misspelling/mispronunciation for the scene to work. It's literally just shorthand for the reader.

    And THIS post is pedantic, too. I consider it a descriptive term (similar to wordy, or gregarious, or loquacious) rather than an insulting term, and I use it on myself here.

    I confess I was completely unaware that anybody would consider that an insult, and I absolutely did not *mean* it as an insult any more than I think "wall of words" is an insult. We are arguing about not just minutia, but incredibly unimportant minutia at that.

    I'm certainly happy to let it go.
     
  6. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    That's my thought as well. Petyr was asking Roose about Ramsay shortly after he and Sansa arrived, and the way he asked him made me think he didn't know much about him. I don't see why he would have needed to feign ignorance with Roose, and in fact think he was trying to learn something about him so he would know how to manipulate events to his advantage.

    Ramsay was a bastard not too long ago, and House Bolton wasn't big enough for people outside of the north to care about before the war, so I can easily see how Petyr might not have known anything about Ramsay. Even Robb Stark didn't know about him.

    As Roose himself said, he put too much trust in Ramsay, and Petyr put too much trust in Roose's trust in Ramsay. I don't think he would have imagined that Roose would have legitimized someone like Ramsay.

    Plus, I think his original plan depended on Sansa staying in Winterfell. While it's possible he underestimated her ability to leave, I think it's more likely that he underestimated what motivation she would have for doing so.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
  7. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    And they don't have a Buffalo in Westeros, so that phrase doesn't work there.

    Take that Westerosians! Maybe you wouldn't have so many problems if you spoke American!
     
  8. Jun 8, 2019 #288 of 294
    Donbadabon

    Donbadabon Bored TCF Club

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    I know, the thread is 3 years old. But I am a late-comer to the series! I've been binge-watching the last few months, and just watched this episode. Oh man. The look on Hodor's face when Meera and Bran disappeared into the snow as he held the door, knowing he saved them, was just heart-breakingly satisfying.

    Which brings me to my question. When Bran wargs into Hodor, is he actually controlling Hodor's actions, or is he just giving Hodor a kick in the pants to get moving? We see Hodor in the cave, just rocking back and forth saying 'Hodor', and then his eyes turn showing Bran has warged. So at this point is Bran dragging himself through the cave, and then holding the door, using Hodor's body? Or is it that once Hodor is warged into action, everything after that is by Hodor's own doing?
     
  9. Jun 8, 2019 #289 of 294
    Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Bran is in control and Hodor is "not there". Once Bran leaves Hodor's body, you can see Hodor is confused regarding how he got there and about his surroundings.

    When they were chained at Craster's keep, for example, Hodor was chained to a wall and then found himself outside in the snow with some dead guy with a broken neck at his feet. For Hodor, the entire sequence while Bran controlled him didn't happen and he did not see it.
     
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  10. Jun 8, 2019 #290 of 294
    photoshopgrl

    photoshopgrl Nerd Fashionista TCF Club

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    Which makes his death all the more tragic. :(
     
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  11. Jun 8, 2019 #291 of 294
    Donbadabon

    Donbadabon Bored TCF Club

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    Thanks, that's what I was afraid of. Hodor was, in the end, sacrificed by Bran. That is really, really sad!
     
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  12. Jun 8, 2019 #292 of 294
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Doubly sad, since it was Bran who made Hodor Hodor in the first place...as I said in the OP, Bran sure messed up Hodor's life real good, didn't he?
     
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  13. Jun 9, 2019 #293 of 294
    Hcour

    Hcour Well-Known Member

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    Ok, wait. Are ya'll proposing that Hodor was controlled by Bran when he was holding the door? Because I don't think so. One could argue that it was pretty much Hodor's life's purpose, put in his mind by Bran, yes, but I'm pretty sure he had control of his own faculties in the end. At that point Hodor's sacrifice was of his own choosing.
     
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  14. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    Yes, Hodor was Hodor when he was holding the door. The question wasn't about that specific moment but a general question about what Hodor feels or retains when Bran is inside him and controlling his actions.

    Meera was telling Hodor to hold the door, she would not have needed to do that if Bran was controlling him. Hodor was also talking, something he does not do when Bran is in control. So there's zero doubt that Bran was not in control at that moment.
     
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