Fringe - Making Angels 2/3/12

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by JoBeth66, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. Feb 4, 2012 #1 of 52
    JoBeth66

    JoBeth66 Temp

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    Great episode, I LOVED the two Astrid's getting together, but I can't believe "our" Astrid lied. And I like Fauxlivia better than Olivia.

    Interesting to get a slight insight into the Watchers.

    But one glaring thing, and they did it so blatantly, that I just couldn't get past it.

    deus ex machina does NOT mean 'the hand of God'. Why they would make that kind of error in a show where the primary audience is going to be sci-fi geeks (who are completely used to plots that devolve into deus ex machina because the writer simply can't get out of a corner) boggles the mind.
     
  2. Feb 4, 2012 #2 of 52
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Well, it doesn't translate as "hand of God," but that's basically what it means. And "Hand of God" is a lot easier to understand without explanation than "God from the Machine."
     
  3. Feb 4, 2012 #3 of 52
    JoBeth66

    JoBeth66 Temp

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    I would never translate it to 'hand of God'. It doesn't compute, in any way, and it's completely uncharacteristic for an incredibly intelligent show. It would've been a perfect teaching moment for 'God from the Machine' - Walter could've expounded on it to some mundane as he does so many other things.

    It took me completely out of the story.
     
  4. Feb 4, 2012 #4 of 52
    Gunnyman

    Gunnyman Just a boring dude

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    I loved seeing the other Astrid. Is she high functioning autistic?
    The way this cast is playing two characters each is working so well. Except for Pacey, he's just Pacey :D
     
  5. Feb 4, 2012 #5 of 52
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Except it DOES compute, perfectly...for a modern English-speaking audience lacking experience in ancient Greek drama, it gets the point (something coming out of the blue to solve an unsolvable problem) across a lot easier than "God from the Machine," which requires a lot of explanation that would take up (and, I'd say, waste) a lot for precious screen time. Because it's NOT an easy concept to get across, and in fact it doesn't really make as much sense as "Hand of God."

    Seems to me this is more a you-problem than a Fringe-writer-problem. ;)
     
  6. Feb 4, 2012 #6 of 52
    john4200

    john4200 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't even notice the liberal translation, and I had four years of Latin. "Hand of God" seemed to fit the context perfectly.

    The explanation for the poison, on the other hand, made no sense. One does not need to be able to see the future to have an intuition that mixing some unusual ingredients could create a new compound. Besides, a lot of discoveries are made by trial and error.
     
  7. Feb 4, 2012 #7 of 52
    JoBeth66

    JoBeth66 Temp

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    We'll have to agree to disagree. Of course, as I love Euripides, maybe you can understand why I found it jarring. :)
     
  8. Feb 4, 2012 #8 of 52
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Well, allow me to make one last argument.

    You're wrong! Phthbbb!!

    Convinced now?
     
  9. Feb 4, 2012 #9 of 52
    dianebrat

    dianebrat wait.. I did what? TCF Club

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    I loved the 2 Astrids, especially with ours lying to make Alt-Astrid feel better, I thought that was a very sweet thing to do. Loved the 2 Olivias, especially Alt-Livia barging in with "Cold Chinese in the fridge?" and how she managed to get Walter to open up to her a bit more. Other Astrid highlights, the shriek when Astrid saw Alt-Astrid and the comment about " I always wondered why more people don't do that?" I never realized the red curls in Alt-Astrid's hair, but love it.

    Add in a guy with Observer like all seeing, Observers discussing September, and for me this was yet another solid week. I liked that just because he could see like they do, he didn't have the proper training/discipline to be able to deal with it.

    I'm also really getting the feeling that Peter isn't going back, but I would love to have them fix it so this timeline would snap back to what it's supposed to be.
     
  10. danterner

    danterner Not it!

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    For me, this was the most enjoyable episode so far this season. Really liked it a lot.

    I noticed the number 47 made a few appearances.

    Is this the first time we've seen the observers do weird physics-defying things (like phase through a plate glass window, and open a safe with the touch of a glowing finger)? I don't recall those types of powers being part of their repertoire in the past...

    "Kirk out" got a LOL from me.
     
  11. kimsan

    kimsan underling

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    We had this very chat at home and agree that "god from the machine" describes mechinism used in a drama to bring the gods into view and NOT the reason they appeared. "Hand of god" better describes they reason for the mechanism...providing intervention and resolution.
     
  12. Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    Wiki indicates she suffers from Asperger Syndrome, but the entry is non-attributed.
     
  13. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    Not to mention the fact that a 1/1000 chance of something occurring (which is 1/10 of 1 percent) is not so unlikely that it couldn't have happened by accident, which is how I'm assuming it would eventually have been discovered in the future without the Observer device.

    I think what they were trying to get at was that the discovery of this compound would have been a Black Swan event, and one not likely to occur during the entire lifetime of the universe. Therefore, the only way to discover this would be for something outside the universe to pass the knowledge in or for a time loop to occur such that knowledge of this compound was sent from the future to the past, which then made its way back to the future to be sent back to the past.

    The problem is, the very nature of Black Swan events makes calculating their probabilities nonsensical, so rather than explain all that the writers just threw in a low probability to indicate that finding this compound by accident was unlikely. But they really should have picked a lower probability than 1/1000.
     
  14. stellie93

    stellie93 Well-Known Member

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    In the original 2 universes :confused: I remember alt Astrid being a little weird, but was she as bad as this one? I wonder what difference in the worlds would make someone turn out so differently? Her parents and genetics are the same. Her Dad, at least on this side, seemed super nice.

    Are we thinking that this universe only split off when Peter drowned? So that Astrid's Dad, for instance, would have been exactly the same up to that point? :confused:

    I feel sorry for our Olivia--red haired Olivia makes her seem so dull and boring.

    I thought Walter's treatment of Peter seemed out of character, but I guess we don't know this Walter as well. He was so kind to Astrid.....
     
  15. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Yeah, she was always highly autistic-like.
     
  16. matt@thehickmans

    matt@thehickmans Hemo_jr

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    Opening the safe, it seemed like the Observer was using his finger like a quantum computer. All possible solutions for the safe combination were tried at once and the correct solution collapsed into reality. It sort of points to a Copenhagen interpretation rather than the Many-Worlds interpretation that I assumed the the show to be based upon (another puzzle to think about).

    As far as phasing through the plate glass.... The Observers have done similar tricks when bullets were co-occupying their position in space-time. In this case it was a significantly larger and motionless object -- the window -- rather than smaller, speedy bullets. And it was very cool.

    Not sure if they got a new technical adviser, or just listened more carefully to the one they already have.

    Could be they are postulating a hybrid Copenhagen/Many-Worlds Interpretation. Usually the possibilities collapse into a single reality upon observation, but very rarely reality splits and we have multiple timelines forming from one original.
     
  17. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    Maybe that's the idea. There were never supposed to be 2 universes in the first place. The Observers were working to re-establish the single universe that was supposed to exist. Now we are in a third universe due to a mistake made by one of the Observers. If this isn't handled correctly, we're going to be headed towards a downward spiral to more and more parallel universes possibly being created.

    ETA: Bear in mind this post was created under influence of alcohol. :D
     
  18. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But was it only created under the influence of alcohol in this universe, and another universe exists where you posted sober? Or did you both post drunk and sober simultaneously until somebody read the post, at which time it collapsed into a drunk state?

    These things matter...
     
  19. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give 'em Hell, Devils

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    I don't think she shows attributes of Aspergers at all. I think she's just a high-functioning autistic who is a whiz with numbers and probabilities.

    Can someone explain to me what we know about why this version of Walter hates Fauxlivia? We know that in the original timeline, Fauxlivia came from Over There to Over Here and duped everyone into thinking she was Olivia for a while. But are we to assume that, even in the absence of Peter, that still happened? I thought the entire history of this universe was different from the death of Peter onward, so I think we need more info about why Fauxlivia would have ever been in this universe and interacting with this version of Walter prior to now.

    Either the writers are mixing up the pre-S3 finale and post-S3 finale timelines, or they're supposed to be mixed and I'm just not understanding the chronology.
     
  20. Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    About Asperger Syndrome from the U.S. National Library of Medicine --

    Asperger syndrome is often considered a high functioning form of autism....many have above-average intelligence. They may excel in fields such as computer programming and science. There is no delay in their cognitive development, ability to take care of themselves, or curiosity about their environment...

    Looks like we're both correct...
     

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