Freeze and Reboot During Transfer of a Show

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by AppleWhat, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. shamilian

    shamilian Member

    476
    14
    Mar 26, 2003
    NJ

    Advertisements

    This happens to me about once every 40 to 50 transfers.
    I have a gigabit switch and both Tivos are hardwired.
    This has nothing to do with the internet or a router...

    This is likely a buffer overrun and/or memory buffers not being released in the receiving Tivo, it only happens on my Premier. I have seen these kinds of bugs many times, mostly on ethernet drivers.. and sometimes in systems that rely on applications to service/read a buffer to free a memory pool, but the application does not get enough cycles and falls behind.

    I guess we could snoop the connection to try and figure out what is triggering the failure,but not having access to the linux terminal it would be all guess work.

    My guess is that if we slowed the connection the receiving Premier would be fine.

    And the CSR is useless...she was reading the script for a netflix crash.
     
  2. weinberk

    weinberk Confirmed Doofis

    34
    0
    Jun 12, 2001
    NYC Metro Area
    Good points. I wonder if I knocked down my ports to 10mbs (just as a TEST)....

    Why does this happen every single time on my transfers now (2 premiers, in either direction) but only occasionally to yours? -edit- make that every single time on my transfers with a full HD recording more than an hour. 720 seems ok.

    I'm only 10/100, not gigabit, but the tivos are only 100bit anyway right? I've tried with my regular Cisco managed switch, and taking that out of the equasion and using only a dd-wrt linksys router/switch.

    -edit- oh and this didn't used to happen with these boxes, only since July.

    Thanks for your thoughts. - this is getting upsetting now - all I want is to be lazy and not have to go all the way downstairs to watch something that's recorded there :)
     
  3. weinberk

    weinberk Confirmed Doofis

    34
    0
    Jun 12, 2001
    NYC Metro Area
    well, after months of no luck, different switches, cabling, etc, I dropped the ports on my switch that the tivo boxes connect to down to 10mbit. I'm now able to transfer 1hr 1080i shows without freezes or crashes.

    Of course it takes absolutely forever (a 7gb file over 10mbit wihtout any condiseration that 10mbit won't really run at 10 will take close to 2 hours).

    I'm thinking that maybe BOTH of my hard drives are having trouble??? I see no pixelation or freezes (expect freezes when transferring at 100mbit). Anything's possible, but is this a likely cause of my crashes at 100mbit but not 10?

    THanks all
     
  4. shamilian

    shamilian Member

    476
    14
    Mar 26, 2003
    NJ
    Different switches have more / less amount of internal memory and may respond to ethernet pause/back-pressure.

    It is hard to get information on how much internal memory the cheap unmanaged switches support.
     
  5. weinberk

    weinberk Confirmed Doofis

    34
    0
    Jun 12, 2001
    NYC Metro Area

    Advertisements

    I've used cheap-o unmanaged to test, but my main switch, the one that I use on a regular basis and the TiVo's are connected to normally is an enterprise grade Cisco WS-2950-24.
     
  6. NotVeryWitty

    NotVeryWitty Too Big to Fail

    933
    71
    Oct 3, 2003
    Central Mass.
    FWIW, I get occasional reboots on my Premieres when doing one of two things:

    1) Watching Netflix shows. Happens approximately 10% of the time, usually at random locations, but perhaps more frequently near the start of the show.

    2) Premiere to Premiere MRV transfer. Happens infrequently (maybe 2% of transfers), but by unhappy coincidence happened last night.

    My Premieres are both connected by wired ethernet to an Apple TimeCapsule router. My ISP is Verizon Fios 25/25 Mbps.

    This is definitely a software bug on the Premieres, likely in the ethernet driver. Last night's reboot happened while the Tivo was recording my wife's favorite show (NCIS) -- since it takes so long to reboot the Tivo, we lost about 10 minutes of the show. Needless to say, my wife did not have very good things to say about Tivo, and is starting to ask about the Verizon DVR again. :mad:
     
  7. weinberk

    weinberk Confirmed Doofis

    34
    0
    Jun 12, 2001
    NYC Metro Area
    Alright, so first off, using a crossover cable isn't going to work. The tivos apparently check for internet connectivity fairly frequently. If the connection goes down in the middle of a transfer, the tivo complains and stops the transfer (it doesn't crash though). So that's not a possibility, you need a switch.

    I looked at every conceivable setting on my switch, nothing makes a difference except for knocking the port down to 10mbit, which makes transfers terribly slow.

    I just tried using a gigabit consumer grade switch. The tivos connect at 100mbit as expected. And we're back to crashing....

    So what do you all think? Could this be a disk problem?????
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

    16,595
    62
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Am I the only one who finds this absolutely insane, and one of the great design/engineering blunders of all time?
     
  9. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I agree about the insanity from a consumer perspective, but I don't think it was a blunder on TiVos part.
    With previous Tivo models, you could cancel service, unplug the Tivo from the network, and stiff effectively use it manually.
    Sounds like with the Premiere, doing the above would render it useless.
    One more way TiVo can control what users can and can't do.
    I just hope they don't get the idea to lock down the software to prevent users from doing their own hard drive upgrades.
     
  10. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,632
    6
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    That would be a very effective way for them to lose much of what should be (and has been) their most enthusiastic customer base.
     
  11. jimcarver

    jimcarver Member

    87
    2
    Dec 25, 2004
    I can't speak to any of the technical issues here and my transfer problem is a little different but my experiences make me believe it is a bandwidth or conflict problem. I'm not very familiar with how WIFI works but I only have problems when I try to do anything else on my network while I'm transferring a show. A show will transfer ok as long as I don't use my iPad, Droid, internet or watch a recorded show at the same time. I can watch live TV at the same time with no problem. I'm even leary typing this right now as I am trying to transfer a show at the same time. If I do "overuse" the network the TiVo transfer will crash the network and I have to reboot the network and the TiVo box. I think my internet connection is very fast (Comcast) but TiVo transfers seem to demand a lot of network resources and will fail and crash my network if other devices are using the network at the same time. I can use my other devices simultaneously and I don't crash as long as I'm not trying to transfer a TiVo show although I do, of course, notice a slowing of response time. I can only assume that TiVo just puts too much demand on the network to allow the use of other networked devices at the same time. I do wish TiVo could do something to alleviate this problem.
     
  12. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    23,665
    1,306
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Maybe. My Internet connection has more uptime than my power. And my power company has excellent uptime in my area.

    No idea why the OP is having issues. I've not had any issues transferring between my premieres over my gigabit backbone. I can have several concurrent transfers, all getting 80mb/s to 90mb/s transfers rates without any reboots.

    I do have my TiVos isolated from my other newtork devices using one port of my router. Each port of my router goes to a five or 8 port switch. And each of those switches are connectected to different devices depending on the section of the network(I use several other switches down the line to connect all my devices). The only time data is sent through my router from my TiVos is for internet access(My TiVo desktop Pc is also in my TiVo network section). I have several sections on my network setup the same way. My VOIP, femtocell, and alarm system are connected to one switch.. My severs, media players and PCs are connected to one switch. And my IP cameras and WifI connections are connected to another.

    This way the data traffic from all these devices doesn't cause any issues between all the devices. With around 70 devices on my network, if i did not separate it this way I would have issues. or I could also go to managed switches but I didn't see the need since my unmanaged setup works great.
     
  13. jimcarver

    jimcarver Member

    87
    2
    Dec 25, 2004
    I have no clue how to do all of that. Seems like it should be much simpler for the average guy and unnecessary to have to do all of that. (If TiVo got it right or didn't market something that doesn't function for most people??)
     
  14. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,632
    6
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    It sounds like there is some error in TiVo's network drivers at the most basic level. We all know that Premieres are currently too dependent on network access, in that they will apparently stop and wait for network data when they should continue with their primary mission. But maybe network buffering is actually buggy. A slow or overloaded network connection should just make a TiVo sluggish, but it shouldn't do much else unless the delay is so long that something times out, and even that shouldn't cause a crash.
     
  15. shamilian

    shamilian Member

    476
    14
    Mar 26, 2003
    NJ
    It was worse before, if the connection to netflix servers went down or netflix had a service outage, and you were watching a netflix program at the time, you would be stuck and the tivo would never get past the boot screen. It would just wait until it could connect to the netflix server before it would continue the boot process. After many months and much pain they fixed that bug.
     
  16. Scott NY

    Scott NY New Member

    19
    0
    Jul 26, 2005
    Bethpage, NY
    I've had the same issue recently with two brand new TiVo premiere models, and I think I have figured out the cause of the problem. At least for me.

    I had gotten a refurbished TiVo premiere as a replacement for a defective unit and was transferring shows from the old one to the new one with no issue. In the middle of the transfers, I went into the video on demand menu and started to set up my season passes to those. That's when the first crash happened. That unit continued to reboot as I tried to transfer things, so I called TiVo and had them send me another replacement.

    This time, they sent me a brand-new premiere in a retail box. I started transferring shows from my original defective unit to the brand-new unit, and there were no problems again. Then I decided to see if the video on demand shows were the problem, so I went into that screen and set up a season pass to one of them. About a minute later, my TiVo crashed and rebooted. After it rebooted, I went back to the now playing screen and started transferring the shows from the old TiVo again, because apparently the to do list got wiped out. I specifically told it to cancel the video on demand items that were about to transfer and let it do it's thing with the remaining shows that were being transferred from the other TiVo.

    When all the transfers are done, I am going to set up my season passes to the video on demand podcasts, and will see if any problems occur. I have not had any problems when transferring a show from my computer to a TiVo while a video on demand podcast was being transferred, so my guess is that this issue is related to transferring the show from one TiVo to another while a video on demand show is being transferred over the Internet.

    If anyone has two premiere models and would like to test this out by setting up a large number of transfers from one to the other and then going into video on demand and setting up a new season pass so that the most recent episode of that show will start to transfer and see if the TiVo crashes, that would be great.

    Good luck. Can't wait to see if this is the real issue.
     
  17. Scott NY

    Scott NY New Member

    19
    0
    Jul 26, 2005
    Bethpage, NY
    So as a follow-up, when I waited for all shows to transfer from the old TiVo to the new one, I was able to successfully set up video on demand season passes and had podcasts from there download while the TiVo was recording shows from live tv and several podcasts have downloaded since then while the TiVo was both recording shows from live tv and while it was idle. So it would appear that transferring a show from one TiVo to another while downloading a video on demand podcast is what caused the issues, at least for me. If I feel brave, I may try to test out the other method again by transferring shows and podcasts at the same time. But I've had too many issues to risk it. Anyone else want to try?
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements