FiOS restriction --- Transferring prohibited by the copyright holder.

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Phantom Gremlin, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. Jun 11, 2010 #61 of 813
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,078
    66
    Jan 4, 2003

    Advertisements

    The operations Frontier will acquire include all of Verizon's local wireline operating territories in Arizona, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Washington, West Virginia and Wisconsin. In addition, the transaction will include a small number of Verizon's exchanges in California, including those bordering Arizona, Nevada and Oregon. EE eye EE eye OH!

    From: http://bit.ly/FQEEX

    Okay, I added the EE eye Oh part. :D'

    So should they expect to get the same treatment (CP...not an outage hopefully) or should we expect ours to go away (hint: doubt it).
     
  2. Jun 11, 2010 #62 of 813
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,078
    66
    Jan 4, 2003
    I found a Verizon to Frontier Transition FAQ website (run by Frontier) that had a very minor amount of information about their plans for us; it will be smooth, nothing will change, yadda, yadda. Don't worry, be happy.

    If I had "more questions" they kindly listed a phone number. So out of curiosity I called to inquire about their plans to restrict the transfer of television recordings as previously Verizon had no restrictions. I was on hold for a while, in fact longer than I would have liked (about 10 minutes) listening to some upbeat elevator music interspersed with brief commercials about various Frontier "features" of which I could take advantage.

    The Frontier CSR was very polite but after I told her who I was, a concerned customer, and what we were dealing with regarding copyright flags and such she really had no answers...even referring me back to the website. Although she knew what a TiVo was (at least she said she did) I could quickly tell that she really didn't understand the technical aspects of what I was relating. However she stayed pleasant and clung to the party line.

    Her basic response to my list of questions and feedback was "Nothing will change; whatever you have with Verizon the day before we take over is what you will have with Frontier." That wasn't what I wanted to hear of course but not unexpected either. She did say that if there was something "unusual" going on with my Verizon service that I should call Verizon. Been there, done that...not even a T-shirt.

    I asked her if she had any means of letting the powers that be know of my and other's concerns. I added that if things remained the same as they are today that I and likely many others would probably cancel our service with them. She danced around the subject for a bit but really didn't have the ability to or wasn't interested in passing on my concerns to anyone else. End of conversation.

    So, still no answers. :(

    If anyone else wants to give it a go you might find someone with a little more information...

    Frontier Customer Support: 1-866-718-5386 - Residential customers press 1

    Let us know if you have any better luck!
     
  3. Jun 11, 2010 #63 of 813
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    I feel for you guys, but I have to say I had a feeling this day would come. Every time I saw a TW or Comcast thread that dealt with copy protection, there would always be the suggestion to go FIOS.
    That may not be true anymore.
    Hopefully, it's a mistake because I'm all for being able to MRV between DVRs.
    TiVo's mistake (IMO) with this issue is not having MRV and TTG as separate protocols.
    I understand the issue of piracy, and now days if you're able to get something to your computer, you can copy it ad infinitum, so don't blame TiVo. They have to obey the rules using the tools they have available.
    I would hope they are working on a solution as MRV is a main selling point.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2010 #64 of 813
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,078
    66
    Jan 4, 2003
    I guess it doesn't surprise me either and I absolutely don't blame TiVo. I also agree that MRV is a big selling point, one that I refuse to give up. I think this will be resolved when VZ gets enough blow back and perhaps when TiVo gets enough complaints. However if it's left to Frontier, who knows? Like I said, I'd just go OTA and use various broadband resources to get everything else if this nonsense sticks.
     
  5. Jun 12, 2010 #65 of 813
    cwerdna

    cwerdna Proud Tivolutionary

    14,511
    790
    Feb 22, 2001
    SF Bay Area, CA

    Advertisements

    I actually only have 1 active TiVo, so MRV isn't of concern to me. I actually archive some video that I deem worth keeping. I also burn some standard def stuff to DVD-RW for use when traveling. Putting goofy copy protection on channels that I've archived from before w/no issue sucks.

    I use kmttg, VideoRedo, Ripbot264, MultiAVCHD, and ImgBurn to create AVCHD DVD +/-Rs of high def content I want to keep. For SD content, I use my DVD recorder as it's less work. But, since TiVo emits Macrovision to prevent my recorder from recording (at least it did on content from Amazon Unbox), I'm blocked.

    Kmttg/TTG would help also if my TiVo's drive shows signs of dying.
     
  6. Jun 12, 2010 #66 of 813
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    The less the regulator knows, the more likely they are to include such a provision as penalty for what the regulator didn't realize was explicitly permitted. A knowledgeable and fair regulator, with or without a TiVo, would use the law to determine if anything is actually being done wrong.
     
  7. Jun 12, 2010 #67 of 813
    vurbano

    vurbano Member

    522
    21
    Apr 20, 2004
    I am undecided as to what I would do. This would render my 2 TivoHD's useless IMO. I wonder why anyone uses Tivo with other providers since most are using the CP flags. That means no MRV. Perhaps Tivo should develop real MRV streaming as a way around this at least keeping their boxes as an option. If it happens, I may look into a 4 tuner Centon card for my HTPC. 4 tuners in one location may eliminate the need for streaming in the living room. But that still doesnt solve my bedroom streaming problems. Maybe I would just go with Verizon DVR's that can stream and keep one Tivo in the house for programs I want to keep. Of course I would have to become a DDB regualr again and learn how to modify the software on the TivoHD like the old HR10-250 days to remove the flags.

    Does Moxi have this MRV problem? I guess it doesnt matter. The transfer to PC was the real reason I didnt get V* boxes. That and hard drive capacity. Moxi would be an expensive option just to get more capacity than a V* DVR. What a mess! What a sick feeling
     
  8. Jun 12, 2010 #68 of 813
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    The Moxi mate relies on streaming, not copying, like TiVo MRV.
     
  9. Jun 12, 2010 #69 of 813
    vurbano

    vurbano Member

    522
    21
    Apr 20, 2004
    so CP flags do not affect the streaming correct? I really do not understand why Tivo doesnt do this and eliminate a lot of the problems. They could still leave the transfer to PC feature for recordings that do not have flags.
     
  10. Jun 12, 2010 #70 of 813
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    Money.
     
  11. Jun 12, 2010 #71 of 813
    richsadams

    richsadams Well-Known Member

    9,078
    66
    Jan 4, 2003
    Actually that's not true...there are a number of different copy protection options. The one being discussed here is known as 0x02 which allows TiVo to make a recording but will not allow that recording to be transferred (to another TiVo, computer, etc.) This is not the norm for any service provider, Verizon, Comcast, etc. Perviously all Verizon FIOS content was flagged as 0x00 which meant the cable card(s) were not paired or bound to TiVo and allowed copies to be made (including MRV) freely.

    Most of us believe what happened with respect to copy protection on some (not all) FIOS channels in Oregon, Washington and Indiana was implemented by mistake and hopefully will be corrected to at least allow MRV of non-premium channels as other providers do. For example HBO channels are copy protected (as other service providers like Comcast normally handle most premium channels) but Showtime channels are not. The CP that VZ suddenly implemented doesn't follow any logic so it would seem that a mistake was made.

    More info about copy protection can be found here:

    http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/243

     
  12. Jun 12, 2010 #72 of 813
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    But how much? I already know the answer: More that TiVo is (currently) willing to pay.
    But...
    The TiVos accept streaming input from Netflix and user apps, and seems to be able to push content, as evidenced by MRV methods already in place. Could it be that difficult to marry the two, that TiVo couldn't throw some budget money at the engineers to say "Make it so"? I've heard that the pre-Series4 code was hard to maintain, so hopefully the Adobe Stagecraft code would make the meld a bit easier (once converted, if it isn't already).

    Not to take Jerry out of context (but I will), perhaps there was a changing of the guard as well, concerning the developers of the olde code, and the knowledge for such a melding is no longer with TiVo...
     
  13. Jun 12, 2010 #73 of 813
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    10,722
    0
    May 1, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    That's probably the easy part.
    The hard part (imo) is going to be getting CableLabs approval and since CableLabs is biased toward the cable companies, it's going to be a tough sell.
     
  14. Jun 12, 2010 #74 of 813
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    True but also perhaps more than TiVo currently has available to spend.

    Yes, it could be "that" difficult (costly).
     
  15. Jun 12, 2010 #75 of 813
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Well-Known Member

    1,547
    34
    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Funny, one of the things I missed about ReplayTV was that even they did streaming of a program from 1 RPTV to another. Too bad TIVO did not do that as well! I bet the Verizon whole house DVR streams as they would not prevent their units from working.

    I do agree, however, that this copy byte of hex 02 seems hit or miss, but will they even bother to fix it?
     
  16. Jun 12, 2010 #76 of 813
    bicker

    bicker bUU

    10,671
    90
    Nov 9, 2003
    Florida
    And if they do, will they fix it just for the Premiere, or will the fix it for the S3 and HD too?
     
  17. Jun 12, 2010 #77 of 813
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,089
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    I don't know if it would be that tough. As mentioned, other products (I'm thinking Moxi here <spit>) stream from one unit to another. What would make TiVo so different?
     
  18. Jun 12, 2010 #78 of 813
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,933
    10
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Although this is usually the short version of your answer to everything, as is often the case, you are once again wrong. The S3 class hardware does not have the umph to stream all HD MPEG II data with 100&#37; reliability while retaining the required encryption. Eliminating encryption would allow the TiVo to stream with 100% reliability, but then it would be in violation of CableLabs requirements.
     
  19. Jun 12, 2010 #79 of 813
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,933
    10
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    Short of recalling all S3 units, no amount of money would make it work.

    For MRV it might work. For TTG and TTCB, it would sometimes work. Netflix and Amazon are not streaming high bandwidth MPEG II video.

    The S3 class machines - especially the THD - just don't have the stones to handle this under all situations. Some of us might very happily live with "not always", but mnay, perhaps most, users will kvetch at anything that only works under limited conditions.
     
  20. Jun 12, 2010 #80 of 813
    lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    6,933
    10
    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    The fact its processors are a generation behind the Moxi (and the Premier).
     

Share This Page

spam firewall

Advertisements