fios actiontec with orbi mesh

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by joy_division, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    I have been a fios customer since 2012, so I have the actiontec MI424WR rev I. I just got the orbi, plugged it into an ethernet port on the actiontec, put it in AP mode, turned off wireless on the fios router. All is great, fast speeds, etc, but with the orbi in AP mode, I don't have control over the turning on and off devices, parent controls, etc.
    Can I just take the ethernet that is going into the actiontec router and put it into the orbi and have the actiontec continue operating with the coax that I assume is getting me my guide data for my Roamio? I havr that Roamio acting as MOCA for my mini.
    Do I have to release DHCP from actiontec router?
    The actiontec router shows a light for WAN ethernet, but not WAN coax, so I am assuming I get my internet from the coax.
    I don't want to just pull the ethernet and swap it into the orbi for fear of messing something up and having to start the entire configuration all over.
     
  2. fcfc2

    fcfc2 Well-Known Member

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    Some of your questions were already answered on the Fios forum but since you ignored the needed info on your setup, I will try again here.
    Sounds like you simply want to replace the Actiontec for routing purposes. You say your Roamio is acting as MoCA, does that mean it is a Pro or Plus with the builtin MoCA? Next question, is there an Ethernet cable also going to your Roamio? If the Roamio is a Plus/Pro and you have Ethernet from your router/switch, you would not need the Actiontec at all and should just use the Roamio to create your MoCA network and the Orbi would be used as your router.
    If the Roamio (4tuner) is not capable of creating a MoCA network or Ethernet cannot reach it, then you will need to use some form of MoCA adapter which can get an Ethernet cable to it.
    The Actiontec can be configured as a MoCA adapter only, with or without the wireless enabled by following the directions found here, in section #2, Can I get an ethernet connection in a room with only coax? Verizon FiOS FAQ | DSLReports, ISP Information.
    Yes, you would need to release the DHCP lease from the Actiontec just before you power it off or you can simply call Fios support later and ask them to do it for you.
    Further clarification from you would allow for a more accurate response.
     
  3. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    Yes, I am sorry, I also posted there, but following advice from other postings I saw, they said to post on the Tivo forums.
    My Roamio is the Plus and is using the built in MoCA. I don't have ethernet running to it, but it is possible. Both are in the basement, about 50 feet from each other. I went with MoCA initially so I wouldn't have to run any ethernet.

    The one part I left out is I also have a Premiere (an older one with no MoCA built in). Since it is connected wirelessly to the Orbi, I can't stream back and forth between Roamio and Premiere (not the worst scenario, but I would like to have it) because they are are different networks now.

    If I run ethernet to the Roamio, and have the Roamio as a MoCA network, would the Roamio, mini and Premiere be friends again? The ethernet would have to run from the Orbi to the Roamio of course since I would eliminate the Actiontec. I so also have a Tivo Bridge adapter I purchased in case I was ever to switch to Optimum, but with their Altice ONE now, you cannot use any other devices including Tivo with it, I will be on Fios forever.

    My next wrinkle...I want to get the Ring Alarm. I "think" that will plug into a router. I don't think it operates all wirelessly. My orbi is the AC2200, with only a single ethernet port. Would I be able to use the acttiontec plugged into the orbi to get more 4 ethernet ports? BEcause maybe down the line I may want to get a PoE DVR security system and I think those plug into a router port too.

    Phew, that was a lot. I think I answered all that you were looking for.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  4. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  5. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    If the Roamio Plus is connected via Ethernet to your new Orbi (freshly configured as your main router, and the MI424-WR removed), the Roamio Plus *could* be configured as your MoCA LAN bridge. Alternatively, you could keep the Roamio Plus as a MoCA client, and either use a standalone MoCA adapter (the TiVo Bridge) or the MI424-WR (reconfigured strictly as a MoCA LAN bridge, per @fcfc2's instructions), to function as your MoCA/Ethernet bridge.

    Personally, I prefer to use some device other than my TiVo DVR as the MoCA bridge, owing to my TiVo having a tendency to reboot ... which would snuff Internet connectivity for any MoCA clients were the DVR my MoCA bridge. YMMV; opinons/preferences differ.

    Using the Roamio Plus as your MoCA bridge won't alter the reality of the Premiere (I'm assuming only a 2-tuner model, correct?) not having any built-in MoCA functionality; the Premiere would require a co-located MoCA adapter to make a MoCA client connection and supply the Premiere with its necessary Ethernet link.

    That said, you could use either your TiVo Bridge or MI424-WR (reconfigured per fcfc2's instructions) to act as the Premiere's MoCA adapter.

    Yes, reconfigured to function strictly as your main MoCA bridge, the built-in switch of the MI424-WR would be linked to the Orbi's LAN port and so would offer additional LAN Ethernet connections.

    Given the info you've supplied, it would seem like you'd want to try the MI424-WR as your main MoCA bridge and then use the TiVo Bridge at the Premiere.


    p.s. Fresh post, here, on DSLReports thread Re: how to release WAN DHCP IP from MI424-WR.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  6. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    I haven't seen it mentioned, what's your Internet plan download/upload speed with FiOS? And what are you seeing if you test the connection using a PC/laptop wired via Ethernet to your router?
     
  7. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    Excellent question krkaufman, which I did not include. I am at 75/75, but I consistently get 85/85 on my wired PC into the actiontec.
    When I used the actiontec wireless, I got at best 30-40 down and up, when I was within 10 feet of the router and less than 5 when on the floor above the basement. with the orbi, I get 85/85 anywhere in my house.
     
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  8. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Did you miss >this prior post<?
     
  9. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    Not sure what you mean.

    You've been a great help. Not sure I want to actually tackle any of this for fear of screwing something up. I have bothered you enough already.

    Having the obri in router mode so I get all of it's features is a nice to have. Do I really need that? Probably now.

    What is more important to me is streaming to my Tivo Mini from the Premiere 2 tuner, which so far has not worked. I ran an ethernet from verizon actiontec to roamio, changed it's MoCA from client mode to bridge mode, put a splitter on the cable going into Premiere with one coax going into Premiere and one going into bridge, and ethernet going into premiere. Still could not stream from Premiere to Roamio or vice versa. Said network was too slow. Again, do I need to stream from those two boxes? Probably not. As long as I can stream of course from Roamio to Tivo mini, that's probably all I need.

    Like I said, I'm probably frustrating you, so I'll just live with my current setup.

    p.s. Yeah, I know you said put the ethernet into orbi after I change it from AP mode to router with the ethernet coming into it directly, but I didn't want to do that yet as things are working good enough for me now. Thanks again.
     
  10. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You hadn't responded to any of the information in that post but *did* reply to the followup, so I just wanted to make sure you'd seen the post. (Sometimes people have a hard time keeping track of all the comments posted to a thread, especially if posts are made while composing a new reply.)

    Chuckle. You can review my post history for any number of threads that should put your mind at ease.

    Would you act on it if I said "yes"? ;)

    Given your next statement, I'll put a pin in the "Orbi as primary router" objective.

    With the Actiontec MI424-WR still acting as your primary router and supplying the MoCA LAN, you should NOT be configuring the Roamio Plus as a MoCA bridge. (I'm assuming that you didn't change anything on the MI424-WR, correct?)

    Try this...

    1) Get the Roamio Plus back to its prior state, as a MoCA client:
    a) disable MoCA on the Roamio Plus;
    b) remove the Ethernet cable from the Roamio Plus;
    c) configure the Roamio Plus as a MoCA client;​

    2) Premiere as MoCA client:
    a) Connect the TiVo Bridge and Premiere as you previously described;
    b) Configure the Premiere for an Ethernet connection;
    c) Enjoy...???​

    If the above doesn't work, one more troubleshooting procedure to try, owing to possible confusion from a dual MoCA bridge setup, would be to do a full power reset of all your network gear and TiVo boxes, per the following:

    To do a full power reset, power down all your gear (modem, router, network switches, MoCA adapters, TiVo devices), and leave it all off for a minute or three; and then power the devices back on, in the order above, allowing each device to come online before proceeding to the next.

    If the MoCA connection at the Premiere still isn't working after the above changes and a full power reset, post back ... ideally with more information on how your rooms are connected to each other, and the incoming coax signal, via coax.
     
  11. amyf

    amyf Member

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    I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I am also on Verizon FiOS and have been for over 10 years. When I first got it, their router was awful and I had to constantly reboot it. When I got fed up, I went out to DSLReports.com and read up on what I had to do. I had Verizon switch my ONT to router connection from coax to ethernet and bought my own router. I believe I followed the DSLReports instructions at Replacing the Actiontec (part 4): LAN-to-LAN keeps all devices on one network Verizon FiOS FAQ | DSLReports, ISP Information and just plugged my coax into the Verizon router so it serves as the MOCA bridge (as well as a wired hub). I have a TiVo Bolt+, Bolt, Roamio Pro and 2 minis and haven't had any network problems since then. Verizon has since upgraded my ONT and they've replaced their router with the newer gateway, but I still use it for just the MOCA and the ethernet ports on it.
     
  12. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Topic switch: If using Orbi as primary router

    The only real trick in the previous discussion Re: switching to the Orbi as your primary router is reconfiguration of the MI424-WR if you need to use it as a MoCA adapter. My K.I.S.S. recommendation would be to just keep the MI424-WR as-is, and store it in a closet ... and buy another MoCA adapter for use at the Orbi as your main MoCA bridge.

    If a Verizon FiOS customer, I'd recommend getting a FiOS Network Adapter ($55) to act as your main MoCA bridge. If you get some other MoCA adapter that only has a single Ethernet port (e.g. Motorola MM1000), you can use a standalone network switch between the Orbi Ethernet LAN port and the MoCA adapter to supply additional Ethernet LAN ports for other devices.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  13. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    This one is a little confusing. What would I have to reconfigure on the MI424-WR other than turn off the wi-fi which I have already done, because it already is a MoCA device?

    Also, when you say store in closet, you mean disconnect and store it in case I need it one day?
    But if I have the MI424-WR already with it's 4 ports available, why would I pay to get the Fios network adapter?

    Next confusing part...if I were to get this network adapter, I would plug the coax into it, but with no input for WAN, how would those ethernet ports work? The ethernet from the ONT would go into my Orbi (setting Orbi to router mode), but the Orbi only has one ethernet port, which I would use to go to the WAN input port on the MI424-WR if I were to make the Orbi my main router.

    Unless...what you are saying is have coax going into Fios network adapter, ethernet from there going into ethernet port on Orbi and ethernet from ONT going into internet port on Orbi??? (I am just not seeing how the Fiso network adapter fits into anything).

    I did see the other post from today, but I don't want to undertake that on a weekday. With turning all things off, it will mess up so many of may smart devices that I don't have enough time on a weekday to fix them all if something were to go wrong.

    It's possible my first attempt to use the Tivo bridge didn't work because I didn't do it like you said. I just plugged in everything I had to and didn't switch anything on the Tivos as they already showed they they were using the new connections (ethernet vs. wifi, etc.). Maybe if I did it like you said by disabling MoCA, plugging in cables, turning MoCA back on, etc. and all that, it may work. Too much to do on a weekday though.

    I will try on the weekend and report back. Let me go back and answer AmyF now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  14. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    Amy, I believe all your Tivos have MoCA option, my Premiere does not, although with the Tivo bridge, it should turn it into one.
    I looked at the instructions in that link and that is too intimidating for me. I know I will mess something up and nothing will work and I won't be able to get back to the way I was, when it doesn't work for me.

    Also, I believe that my ONT to router connection is ethernet already since I see the light on the WAN Ethernet, but not on the WAN coax.

    Verizon will not replace my MI424-WR with the new gateway router without charging me $12 per month for it, which defeats the purpose of me having my Tivos, which is not not get raped every month for a rental fee that might turn out to be thousands of dollars over it's lifetime. Plus, if I am using the Orbi with far superior wifi speed and coverage, I see no reason to use the new gateway at all.
     
  15. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Topic: If using Orbi as primary router

    This is correct. The FiOS Network Adapter is just a MoCA bridge with 4 Ethernet ports, so it would only be establishing your MoCA network ... rather than using the MI424-WR to do so. And its extra Ethernet ports would give you 3 available Ethernet LAN ports for other devices.

    Of course, you could accomplish the exact same thing using the TiVo Bridge and a standalone Gigabit network switch. Plug the Orbi LAN port into the GigE switch, and then connect the TiVo Bridge's Ethernet port to the switch (and its coax to your coax line). You'll then have MoCA, plus as many unused, available LAN ports as the switch includes ... minus 2 (one used for the Orbi connection, one for the MoCA adapter).

    The only reason for suggesting the FiOS Network Adapter is for simplicity, to eliminate the need to reconfigure the MI424-WR (from a router to simply a MoCA bridge). The option to use the TiVo Bridge/network switch with the Orbi *router* would delay the need to reconfigure the MI424-WR until you needed it to get the Premiere networked via MoCA (but it would still need to be removed from the setup).


    As for reconfiguring the MI424-WR...
    I'm guessing you haven't reviewed the instructions that others have linked for reconfiguring the MI424-WR.

    Correct. And not having changed its configuration, it should be ready for action.

    That's entirely up to you; I'm just providing options, with a whole lotta if/then's.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  16. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Exactly why I was suggesting the FiOS Network Adapter. (Though, as stated, I was assuming you're a Verizon customer and would have access to this product.)

    The FiOS Network Adapter is functionally equivalent to what the MI424-WR would be doing were it reconfigured strictly as a MoCA bridge, but without any need for configuration. The FiOS Network Adapter (and most other MoCA adapters) are plug-and-play for your needs.
     
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  17. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    This is great info. I don't think I missed the info others were telling me about reconfiguring the MI424-WR as a MoCA bridge, I think I just saw it as too overwhelming for me or I only recall talking about turning off Wi-Fi so that I can make the Orbi into AP mode.
    For $55, the headache seems to solved by your Fios Network adapter option. Yes, I am a Fios customer. Just checked and it's $5.99 shipping plus tax. I'm wondering if I can pick it up at a Verizon Fios TV store.

    The generic switch option might work, but if I use the Tivo bridge there, then I can't use it on the Premiere. Before I got the Orbi, I was able to stream from the Premiere to the Tivo mini without the bridge. Maybe once the Orbi is the main router and it has a Fios network adapter on it I can do that again. So many options. K.I.S.S. is always preferred, so I think I am leaning toward that suggestion of yours.

    I'll update this thread when I try something. May be after the weekend though as I don't know how long it would take for Verizon to ship the network adapter.
     
  18. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    Just to be clear, how many tuners does your Premiere have? Or can you report its model number?

    (Getting the Premiere working via MoCA can be accomplished (or at least attempted) prior to switching the primary router setup.)
     
  19. krkaufman

    krkaufman TDL shepherd

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    You may want to check the Orbi's configuration for an "IGMP Proxying" setting and disable it.
     
  20. joy_division

    joy_division Member

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    Yup, Premiere has two tuners. TCD746320, with a 2010 date on it. I did try the MoCA with the current MI424-WR router today as I mentioned, but hastily did it without rebooting any devices. I put the ethernet from router to Roamio and set it to both MoCA client and MoCA bridge. No difference. The Premiere showed network connection as ethernet, so I didn't feel the need to reboot it. Roamio also showed ethernet+MoCA in it's setup, so I didn't reboot it either. I may try again tomorrow.
    As for the setting in my Orbi, with it in AP mode I cannot get into any of the advanced setting to see if it has IGMP Proxying. I'll have to wait to put it in router mode.
     

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