Favorite channels disappear in TiVo Live Guide

drew2k · Dec 1, 2003

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I haven't experienced this yet, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've been following this thread, but wonder if you have to tell the DirecTV CSR exactly what you want them to do when you call to report the channels disappeared.

Whenever I've called in the past about a problem, I always asked them to make a notation on my account. If the problem repeated, the next time I called, I told them it happened again and they should reference the prior notation. It was happening quite often that Dolby Digital would disappear on Showtime, so I asked them to escalate the problem internally to whatever department does research and troubleshooting, and told them I'd wait on hold while they wrote up the ticket and forwarded it.

I'm thinking if you continue this procedure, at a minimum your account history will be accurate showing how many times it's happening, and if you're lucky, maybe someone with any authority at DirecTV will notice all the tickets being forwarded, notice a trend, and inform the CSR's that this is not an unheard of issue.

If nothing else, with a history of problems in your account, the CSR may actually take pity on you and offer a "credit" for your problems!

Sir_winealot · Dec 1, 2003

Originally posted by SpankWare

How do you get a problem fixed when they deny it? Simple, you don't let them deny it. When it becomes more difficult for them to attempt to ignore you rather than ignore the problem, they'll start admitting there is an issue. You just have to make it happen.
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I gotta tell ya SpankWare...it ain't fer lack of tryin'. I went around in circles w/them the other nite, and it was like like trying to catch a flea with chopstix....oh sure...Mr. Miaggi can do it, but the folks *I* spk/w at DTV CS were adamant that it was my dish alignment, MS or access card.

Short of picketing their local office, I'm open for suggestions.

Hmmm...maybe I should try email?

**Drew...good points! I'll try that angle if it continues ...perhaps over time, they'll even offer me a "couple replacement HDVR2's" since it only seems to be affecting Series 1 units...(altho I *love* that T-60 remote, and both my units have been upgraded w/bigger HD's) ...you never know 'till you try!

BlankMan · Dec 1, 2003

Well my T60 known as TiVo2 was missing all it's Favorite Channels when I turned on the TV this evening, this time however it did not look like any of the Channels I Receive were lost. Well, I didn't go and count them, but usually it's quite obvious.

Feeling like I wanted to kill some time tonight I decided to call DirecTV. First at bat, Aldo ID 3434 of the TiVo Specialty Group, when he came on the line I asked to confirm that he was the TiVo Specialty Group and he said he was. After explaining the on going problem to him I was asked to hold while he did some checking. When he came back he stated that there is an issue with this, that when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted. Almost sounds like we're making progress.

He then asked that I call Sony. I said why. He said to go over the problem with them. I said what if they say there is nothing they can do about it, Aldo says call DirecTV back.

Second at bat Dan at Sony, I have the call ticket number but will not list it here. After explaining the on going problem to Dan and what Aldo told me, Dan started laughing and asked why did I call Sony. I said because DirecTV told me to jump through hoops. So, after having Dan document the call and getting the ticket number I was off to call DirecTV again. I do like the fact that Sony records their calls so that this cannot be disputed.

Third at bat, Jennifer ID 10006778. After explaining the problem to her, which took longer this time, and what Aldo told me, I was put on hold while she did some checking. When she came back, she told me to fix the problem do a Clear and Delete on the unit and that in her words "will reload the software". Well, a simple reboot will "reload" the software, so to say the least I was very skeptical of this. Not wanting to lose all my SP's and recorded programs before I watch them I pressed for a little more information.

I explained to her that two people over at TiVo have acknowledged the problem and said they were in contact with DirecTV and never did they say a Clear Delete would fix it. I asked what if it doesn't and it happens again, Jennifer said then the unit would have to be replaced. I said two people at TiVo who have reproduced the problem are saying it's a software issue and you're saying that the hardware would need to be replaced? Then I realized that I had just received DirecTV's third canned answer when they deal with DVR problems:

1.) Reboot it
2.) Call us
3.) Replace it

Not believing Jennifer in light of what E. Stephen Mack and Bill Dailey at TiVo have said so far and once again informing Jennifer of that, I asked what if I Cleared and Deleted and it happened again and I called back? She said I would then be put in touch with a Technician, I asked if I could do that right now, she asked that I hold on.

Fourth at bat Yolinda ID 5364. She said she's the supervisor of the TiVo Specialty Group, does that mean Technician? I don't know. I explained to her what Aldo told me, what Dan told me, now what Jennifer told me, and what E. Stephen Mack and Bill Dailey have said, fell on deaf ears. She did allude that there is an issue and DirecTV's current answer is to Clear and Delete. She said the Engineers "in the back" as she put it may know more, but Clear and Delete is their current fix. I said again, that TiVo is indicating that it is a software problem, she wasn't listening.

I also asked Yolinda to address what Aldo told me, she said who's Aldo. I said the first TiVo Specialist I talked to who told me that when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted. She disavowed any knowledge of any Aldo being in the TiVo Specialty Group even after I furnished her with his ID number. That builds confidence in DirecTV's Support Organization.

I then asked Yolinda when this "issue" will be resolved, these were her exact words: "We're hoping we can get this fixed as soon as possible". Not like other companies that purposely try and take as long as they can to fix a software problem....

So, after three phone calls for a total of 65 minutes on the phone I now have a clear understanding of the problem and what DirecTV is doing to address it.

1.) Aldo says "when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted".
2.) Dan says "Why are you calling Sony about this?"
3.) Jennifer says "Clear and Delete and if that doesn't fix it replace the unit".
4.) Yolinda says "We're hoping we can get this fixed as soon as possible".

Yep, crack Support Organization DirecTV has there, so who to believe?

But, Yolinda did indicate that on my account they have the occurrences of these losses, now the only way those could be there, especially the recent ones is through my emails that I have been sending to them.

So anyone game to test the Clear and Delete?

tammyandlee · Dec 2, 2003

Bump

LazyFox · Dec 2, 2003

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Well just called the tech support and made the guy record the problem in my file. I told him I just want him to record my complaint and that other users on this forum had the same problem. Just call them and don't ask them for fix, just tell them to record your complaint.

Mark Lopez · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by BlankMan
So anyone game to test the Clear and Delete?
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Has anyone with the problem tried this? I seriously doubt it will help, but I can go ahead and try it on my one unit. It only has one SP and I have nothing recorded at this point.

Tutman · Dec 2, 2003

Last month, I did a clear and delete on one of my units - not that I was asked to or anything. The hard drive crashed, and I replaced it and copied the image from my other unit. To get the image from another unit to work in this unit, I had to do a clear and delete.

That individual unit has not experienced a problem since (3 or 4 weeks now). However, I have never had the problem on a single unit more frequent than a couple of months.

Maybe, just maybe, this will work. The answer may be a couple months from now. Since DirecTV doesn't "clear and delete" our system when they upgrade our software, but simply upgrade it with all settings left in place, maybe there is an issue with the upgrade process.

However, I'm guessing that this is just DirecTV's attempt at stalling.

BlankMan · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by Tutman
However, I'm guessing that this is just DirecTV's attempt at stalling.
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That was my first thought too, or they have no clue so they'll try anything, of course at the customers inconvenience though

BrettStah · Dec 2, 2003

Doing a Clear and Delete is just as bad as swapping out the DirecTivo itself, in my opinion. I guess it would save me the time it takes to upgrade the hard drive, but the time-consuming part is re-entering all of the season passes and wishlists, plus losing the existing recordings.

Mark Lopez · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by BrettStah
Doing a Clear and Delete is just as bad as swapping out the DirecTivo itself, in my opinion.
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I agree. My one unit has a ton of SPs and recordings. However, my other unit only has one SP right now. So I figured it's at least worth a try since it's been happening every few week lately. The bad part is that since it does happen irregularly, it could take months to find out if this fixes it. In any case, it's in the process of clearing and deleting now. We shall see.

SpankWare · Dec 2, 2003

Blankman,
Now that was a good post. Thanks for giving a very detailed transcription of your support calls. As for the answers you got, I think it clearly supports the idea that the DVR CSR's are either unaware of the issue or are intentionally dismissing it. I'm likely to go with the idea that they're only able to support you with the information they are given, and as such I would place little blame on the people who are only "doing what they are told." Those guys in the back are the people we need to talk to about this issue, the real technical folks and not the people that talk for them. For the Clear and Delete suggestion, if nobody has done it yet or those that have are not currently experiencing the issue then we need to consider this as a possible solution. It's a pain for sure, but if that's the resolution they have suggested I think it should at least be tried before it's dismissed. What answers if any about the specific issue have you received from TiVo? They say a software issue, but have more details been given? It might shed some light on the usefulness of a Clear and Delete.

I think the ideas noted above about having a note on your account each time you call with the issue (and preferably one note per unit experiencing the problem) is a great idea. But I'm certain there has to be a ticketing system, and we've got to get some real and consistent data in there on this issue. The "people above" won't be looking at notes in individual accounts, they'll be looking at the statistics on open trouble tickets, so that is the best place to attack.

SammyTerry · Dec 2, 2003

I've been watching this thread for some time now because this has happened to me. Here is my original post on the matter:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135305

About a week after that happened, I lost my favorites again but not the channels I receive so all my SP's recorded normally.

Some time after that, for an unrelated reasons, I reset my thumbs up data and stopped recording suggestions. I have yet to have the problem happen to me again. I don't know, maybe doing that reset has something to do with it not happening to me again, as unlikely as it seems.

BlankMan · Dec 2, 2003

SpankWare I've said all along, I believe the CSR's in the trenches, the ones answering the phones truly want to help and truly try to help but are hampered from doing so by Management. I have said this in posts and in PM's to CSR's, I've also had them tell me I nailed it on the head. And I could sense it from Yolinda as soon as she got on the phone, in her mind, this is the way it is and it's not open for discussion, do what I tell you and stop wasting my time...

The problem with the Clear and Delete in my mind, besides losing all ones SP's and recorded programs is that it might mask the problem. It might be an issue that as SP's accumulate and recordings and Thumbs Up/Down data, etc. that then the problem will surface again. That could be 6 months down the road. So it's ok until then, it surfaces again and we start over with DirecTV because even though they have it documented now I'd bet you in 6 months they'd start it as a new problem. It's been going on for over a year that I'm aware of, others here might know it for longer, and they haven't correlated any of that data to this point so why would they start then?

But the fact the the TiVo Reps never offered this solution, and even though painful, if indeed it was the fix and they knew it I'm sure they would make the case do it once and it will be over, but they have not. And the fact that DirecTV will not say that this will absolutely fix the problem, the fact that they say the next step is to replace the unit, builds no confidence in them. Replace the hardware for a software problem. Not. They're guessing.

Maybe one of the TiVo Reps will comment on the Clear and Delete, nobody knows the software better then them, so they should be able to tell if somebody's blowin' smoke, and hopefully if so their conscience will help them from putting their customers through needless pain.

Clear and Delete coming from DirecTV who's infamous fix for any problem has been "Reboot it" does not carry a lot of weight in my book, unfortunately for them they blew their creditability long ago.

TiVoOpsMgr told me that TiVo was able to reproduce the problem and contacted DirecTV with that information. TiVoBill said in a post vaguely because he'd get in trouble if he didn't do it that way, that it has to do with AGP data sent when DirecTV is adding new channels. This is what Aldo said also, so I tend to lean towards that explanation and believe it.

Clear and Delete does not load any new software or change the code in any way or patch it, so if the DirecTV add channels process is what is causing this problem, how could Clear and Delete fix the problem? The same code is executing after the Clear and Delete, DirecTV is doing the same add channel process, so nothing changes. IMHO

SpankWare · Dec 2, 2003

I'd love to hear from TivoOpsMgr exactly what this "software fix" would do to correct the issue, as that should tell us exactly what the problem is. If Clear and Delete fixes, even if temporarily, the issue then I can't help but wonder if there's some data being written to the system and the space available for this data is running out, causing it to mess up. Clear and Delete would clear out any data that the system is using so this might make sense. That's the only thing I can think of. Either there's some data being written wrong, which corrupts over time or there's a limited amount of allocated space for this data and causing it to fill up is causing a problem. Without knowing exactly what TiVo determined the problem to be and what they would have done to fix it, we'll never know. As I don't have this problem, I'm clearly more interested in what the issue is rather than the fix for it. Being a long time Linux user and developer, I just want to get my hands in here and start poking around. This is just like my "slow guide" issue.... it's gotta be something really simple that just needs to get done.

While I don't fully support the idea of annoying people, I think we need to find some way to get some information..... on or off the record from the guys who know the system to tell us what is causing this and why. Then we can work hard on pressing to get it fixed.

Mark Lopez · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by BlankMan
The problem with the Clear and Delete in my mind, besides losing all ones SP's and recorded programs is that it might mask the problem. It might be an issue that as SP's accumulate and recordings and Thumbs Up/Down data, etc. that then the problem will surface again.
Click to expand...

I don't think SPs etc. have anything to do with the problem. My one TiVo that does it has never had more than one SP (actually not an SP but a record by time), no more than 2 or 3 recordings at any given time, suggestions are off and I don't use thumbs. Oh, it's also an un-hacked unit.

BlankMan · Dec 2, 2003

I don't think we're going to get any more out of TiVo Reps, I've been informed that DirecTV has asked them to drop it, do not comment on it any more. This is exactly why I have it in for DirecTV so much, I'm not normally that way, but their constant stonewalling instead of just being open. This is unlike me too but I hope Murdock cleans house. I've been through acquisitions on both sides and know the results, I've never wished this on anyone before but if the Management types that condone and foster this stonewalling and lack of being up front and honest with their customers lost their jobs I would have no sympathy. Find another job and go screw up that company that I hopefully don't have to deal with. Selfish I know...

But on another note: I asked yesterday if this thread could be sticky'd until it's resolved and have not gotten a response nor is it sticky'd. I guess a thread covering an on going problem with a DirecTV Receiver with TiVo in the DirecTV Receiver with TiVo Forum is not as important as Goin' to Loss Wages...

BlankMan · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by Mark Lopez
I don't think SPs etc. have anything to do with the problem. My one TiVo that does it has never had more than one SP (actually not an SP but a record by time), no more than 2 or 3 recordings at any given time, suggestions are off and I don't use thumbs. Oh, it's also an un-hacked unit.
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I agree, I'm just trying to keep somewhat of an open mind and entertain all possibilities.

SpankWare · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by BlankMan
I don't think we're going to get any more out of TiVo Reps, I've been informed that DirecTV has asked them to drop it, do not comment on it any more.

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Was this an actual statement, or something that was inferred? If it's an actual statement as in "Yes, DirecTV acknowledged this but told us we can't talk about it anymore" then I'm going to jump on the Blankman bandwagon. Not necessarily against Customer Support, but against the organization itself. This type of thing just will not do. See, it's something like this that's going to force me to crack the case on a unit or two and start poking around. While I'm not currently experiencing the problem, there's clearly a real problem and no real logical reason why it isn't being fixed, at least that we're being told.

Time to start pulling favors. Since we can't get it out of TivoOpsMgr, we need to start finding some other contacts and kind souls inside TiVo or DirecTV who can shed some light on what's going on.

BlankMan · Dec 2, 2003

Originally posted by SpankWare
Was this an actual statement, or something that was inferred? If it's an actual statement as in "Yes, DirecTV acknowledged this but told us we can't talk about it anymore" then I'm going to jump on the Blankman bandwagon.
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Whoa! Was I wrong! I remember saying you would never change my mind and I would never change yours! But something is happening! It's.... It's.... a Miracle!

Mark Lopez · Dec 2, 2003

Ok, I have a conspiracy theory! After I did the clear and delete, it went through the guided setup. When I got to the dialing section, I didn't recall my DirecTiVo ever looking for a local number (as did the SA units) when I first set it up. I then looked at the dialing options on my other unit that has this problem and it's set to use the toll-free number. So my conspiracy theory is that this is being done on purpose to get people to do a clear and delete so you can no longer use the toll-free number. But out of curiosity, are those who are having this problem using the toll-free or local dial-in number?

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