Elgato HD DVR vs. TiVO

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by klrobinson999, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Feb 6, 2011 #1 of 30
    klrobinson999

    klrobinson999 New Member

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    Looking the new Elgato HD DVR for the Mac, and its use of IR blasters and direct connection to the cable box, one wonders why TiVo went with the CableCard. Why choose complexity over simple plug-and-play? What advantages does the CableCard provide? The Elgato system apparently works with cable, satellite, & FiOS, and will record premium and VOD content, without the need for a site visit by a tech or an additional tuning adapter.

    Note that I'm talking about the way the Elgato HD grabs content, not that I think TiVos should be attached to computers to actually work. TiVo would, of course, include an internal hard drive and other features as a standalone device. The Elgato system simply seems more streamlined and better positioned in this constantly changing world of Switched Digital and cable scrambling.

    http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/products/EyeTV-HD/product1.en.html


    I'm just curious if anyone else thinks TiVo needs to re-think how they grab content for their DVRs.
     
  2. Feb 6, 2011 #2 of 30
    orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

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    So this is your idea of simple "plug and play"?:
    [​IMG]

    And this is complexity?
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Feb 6, 2011 #3 of 30
    astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Raconteur TCF Club

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    Let's see... I plug it in, make one phone call, and 5 minutes later I have every channel Comcast broadcasts, ready to record.

    One piece of equipment is all I have, a TiVo. No cable box, nothing. Simplicity is beautiful. :up:
     
  4. Feb 6, 2011 #4 of 30
    SullyND

    SullyND L: 31-14 (10-2) TCF Club

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    How does it handle dual tuner?
     
  5. Feb 6, 2011 #5 of 30
    classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    The reason for built in tuners with Cablecard is simplicity, value, and dual tuners. They can make a complete dual tuner DVR for well under $500.

    Boxes were a problem.
     
  6. Feb 6, 2011 #6 of 30
    SoBayJake

    SoBayJake Member

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    Also, everyone missed this point, is the TiVo records the digital stream DIRECTLY.

    An Elgato EyeTV HD records component output. So it re-encodes from the analog domain into the digital domain. With that re-encode, you lose quality. And it records 2-channel stereo, it doesn't record the digital audio.
     
  7. Feb 6, 2011 #7 of 30
    HiJon89

    HiJon89 New Member

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    Capturing analog output from a STB and converting to digital and controlling with an IR blaster is garbage. You destroy video quality, lose surround sound, have only a single tuner, and if you bring up the scroll bar on the cable box on the bottom of the screen to browse channels while something is recording, that bar on the bottom is permanently embedded into the recording since the Elgato records whatever the video stream from the STB has in it. About as far from an elegant solution as you can get.
     
  8. Feb 7, 2011 #8 of 30
    tre74

    tre74 Member

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    Been looking at the eyeTV for info myself. The eyeTV Hybrid is a simple version consisting of a USB stick tuner that connects to a coaxial cable. It can record OTA. It works with Macs and PC's with Windows 7. Although there is a dual tuner version for Europeans, there is not one for the US market. I am tempted to try this thing out. It would be nice to have another tuner to use in my system. I am quite happy with my Premiere but still long for a third tuner.....and better Netflix.....and better HD UI.....and had better stop now while I'm still happy with it. The Super Bowl looked amazing today. Noticed Fergie sporting new lips for the half time show. OTA HD rules!
     
  9. Feb 7, 2011 #9 of 30
    Budget_HT

    Budget_HT Heavy User (of TiVo)

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    Are you sure of this? Last I heard the EyeTV records the ATSC digital stream much like Tivo does.
     
  10. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Look at the picture:
    [​IMG]
    So as mentioned it's capturing analog (component) video and stereo audio and encoding on the fly to H.264. There is no coax input and no mention of ATSC tuner for OTA tuning.
    Hardly a better solution than capturing the original digital streams (both QAM & ATSC) which is what HD TiVos do.
     
  11. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    And no digital audio in/out with this either - yuck.
     
  12. Budget_HT

    Budget_HT Heavy User (of TiVo)

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  13. klrobinson999

    klrobinson999 New Member

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    I think everyone's missing my point: I'm not saying that the Elgato is the perfect solution, or even an alternative to the HD and tuning capabilities of the TiVo. I'm saying that there is alternative way to grab content, to go around the cable providers and their limitations (Switched Digital, house call for CableCard install, Tuning adapters, lack of VOD), and to make it easier for a plug-and-play method for the consumer.

    TiVO's version could be HDMI and not component or composite. It would have its own hard drive and not rely on a computer. It could have digital audio.

    My post is to challenge the method of end-user delivery, not promote the actual Elgato product over the TiVO.
     
  14. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    HDMI is HDCP protected, and while recently has been cracked TiVo could not legally capture HDMI stream. The method you are proposing would require a TiVo box, IR blaster and cable provider box which hardly makes it an elegant solution. What TiVo could do to clean things up is have integrated tuning adapter in their box, but tuning adapter is really a stop gap solution to the SDV problem. Lack of VOD personally I don't care about at all but there is solution to that problem as well as evidenced by the Cox/TiVo agreement which will allow Cox VOD via the TiVo Premiere without any compromise to other Premiere applications (Netflix, Youtube etc).

    There have been component capture devices that encode to HD output on the fly for quite a long time now, so the Elgato solution is nothing new in that respect either.
     
  15. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    TiVo would have to be in a pretty powerful position to be able to record HDMI from a pay TV box, becasue of HCDP.

    Until then, I think a Cablecard/ATSC tuner is pretty cost effective, even if it alienates satellite/IPTV users.
     
  16. SullyND

    SullyND L: 31-14 (10-2) TCF Club

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    No, I think you are. How would your proposed solution get around the DMCA? How would it handle two tuners? How much space would you need to store uncompressed digital video?
     
  17. klrobinson999

    klrobinson999 New Member

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    No, my point was exactly what it was.

    Damn the DMCA!
     
  18. klrobinson999

    klrobinson999 New Member

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    Do those Tuning adapters even work properly or is there always a problem?
     
  19. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    They work perfectly for me (for both a TiVo S3 and Premiere) and I'm sure for many others. There are certain TWC markets where there still are issues, specifically for Cisco tuning adapters, so doesn't work perfectly for everyone, but I don't think there are widespread problems with them.
     
  20. Aero 1

    Aero 1 Active Member

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    forget the fact that you dont understand how any of this works, and forget about the DMCA, what you need to understand is that tivo is not in the business of accommodating the three of you that are in the same market as El Gato.
     

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