Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Mar 1, 2021 #10441 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Might I get an image for a TCD 648250B. Seems these were 250GB, but mine has a 1TB that appears to be original.
     
  2. Mar 1, 2021 #10442 of 10473
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    Sent.
    250GB is the original size, yours had to been expanded.
     
  3. Mar 1, 2021 #10443 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Originally a 250GB, I see. I have been cloning the 1TB drive, and that works, but takes ~5-6 hours. Apparently the file you linked I had already downloaded, and also have winmfs. Had no luck, S3 wouldn't boot. Discovered another possible capacitor issue, unit reboot cycle, sometimes boots. Had replaced caps that tested bad and machine worked for 2 mos. All others test good, may replace anyway.

    Thanks for links.

    Edit 4/4/21:Found that the winmfs program will clone a 1TB drive in less than 2 hours!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  4. Mar 1, 2021 #10444 of 10473
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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    Should have replaced all the capacitors in the first place, as they would show as normal, not bulged, etc.
     
  5. Mar 2, 2021 #10445 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    TLDR;(Too Long, Didn't Read) Yes, should have changed all caps as a preventive measure.

    Edit 4/4/21: Was a software issue, has been working perfectly with only the 4 bad caps replaced, so I am recanting my "should have replaced all the caps" statement. I will revise this post if things change.

    The point is that there is no reason to replace parts if they are good, I have seen no evidence that all of the caps on the S3 go bad. If someone can show me their ESR readings of all the caps being bad we can have a discussion.

    On the other hand, some people replace all the light bulbs
    in their house when a few burn out, thinking the rest will be
    going out soon. I had a landlord that did that. Nothing wrong
    with that, but many would consider it an unneeded expenditure
    of time & money, while others deem it good preventive maintenance.
    If I were paying someone $50/hr to do this, and I had 100 units,
    I would have them only replace the bad bulbs. End rant/edit.

    I'm an electronics tech, and can test capacitors with my ESR meter. Yes, capacitors can be bad even if they show no bulging or leaking. They can also last 50 years or more, so best practice in a commercial setting has been not replacing them all when not needed. It adds an additional risk of board or nearby component damage. Fortunately these boards are fairly robust. If you have ever had traces tear or come loose from soldering iron heat you will understand. I tested all caps & only 4 tested bad, so I replaced those. Fixed the problem for a few months. That doesn't mean some I left didn't have issues. But I agree, in this case, changing all would have been best practice on an 11 year-old unit with a history of failing caps.

    I have pulled it from my Tivo lineup, so don't use it. (actually was never really in lineup, bought it used a few mos. ago) When I first got it & before putting it on my account, it was still getting guide info from old lifetime account/zip, which was local to me, and sharing with other Tivos (albeit "transfer") & downloading from PC worked, but I didn't know at the time to take note of the a,a,a vs. i,i,i settings in sysinfo. (apparently series 3 has 3 digits, not four like newer machines) They are now i,i,i, and neither sharing nor downloading is working. Shows up on network with yellow exclamation point and "unable to connect." All network tests are fine. Tivo rep says "older units not supported." That doesn't mean they should disable working features. Jerks. They did the same to my Roamio OTA (bought used with Series 3) when I transferred it to my account, but I complained angrily until they "elevated" the case & reinstated the sharing features in a couple days. My Roamio was a,a,a,a before they broke/disabled it to a,i,a,i, now is a,i,a,a, not sure which feature is disabled with this setting. Don't feel like fighting with them to fix it when I don't use the machine. Want to get it functioning to give away or sell.

    Can download videos from PC to Roamio & play on Roamio, but even though they show up on Edge units, they won't play. Would be nice, but no big deal, can use Plex. OTA shows recorded with Tivo units can be played fine on other Tivos. (except Series 3)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  6. Mar 2, 2021 #10446 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Has TiVo changed something recently? For a long time, putting a 'new' TiVo on your network with other machines that was not registered to you and did not have the matching Media Key would not allow transfers to or from your older TiVos to the new TiVo. Aside from getting proper guide info, the main reason for transferring the lifetime device to you was that TiVo would send it your matching Media Key so all devices could see and talk to each other. Perhaps that's old news now.

    Also, the guy who used to run TiVo before it was sold came on Tivocommunity several years ago and made it very clear that transferring content to/from a TiVo to a computer was a sunsetted feature no longer supported and that it would stop working sooner or later. They started by crippling TiVo Desktop, then most other stuff also just stopped working. It was incredibly disappointing to have that great feature die, but such is life.
     
  7. Mar 2, 2021 #10447 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    You are probably right, and I could be remembering the timeline wrong as to what shared with what and when. I had 2 Edges, then found a Roamio and 3 Series 3 units on craiglist dirt cheap. Might have just been sharing between the recently acquired 4 units when they were still on their old, shared account.

    Or (more likely) after initially being able to share and download from PC (via piTivo) while all on MY account, they sent me software that crippled sharing. I say more likely, as I seem to recall the sharing lasted a few weeks. Would have to check emails as to when I bought them vs. when I registered them with Tivo. I remember being quite PO'd when it happened. Lifetime should be lifetime. I don't expect new features on an 11 year old machine, or to carry over all the features of an old machine to new models, but don't cripple features on old units that were working a week ago, or that were sold with the unit. To me that borders on fraud. But yeah, such is life. It is just TV after all.

    I do know a little about Tivo doing away with the up/downloading of video directly, and use piTivo for that. I never had that feature, either with my Edges or prior DVRs, so I didn't miss it. I do love being able to share recordings between the units. Makes the 500GB Edge units useful, as I have upped the Roamio to 2TB, and with it's 4 tuners vs. the Edges 2, it has more or less become the "server."Haven't taken the plunge to kmttg yet, don't have time to give it right now, but it is on my list. I am new to Tivo, July of last year. Not new to video, DVRs, electronics, software, technology, etc.

    Do others' Series 3 units share these days? Are their TiVo To Go settings i,i,i? Have you always had to "Transfer" a video to/from the S3 units to play them, as opposed to directly playing/streaming? Seems that's the way mine worked, before the crippling.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  8. Mar 2, 2021 #10448 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    I believe last I read, development on kmttg has stopped, and the author has moved on to other things. But I could be wrong. I really liked the app, all kinds of nice features. I have version 2.4p, which still works nicely on my Roamio Pro.

    I sold my last Series 3 (I used to own two because two tuners weren't enough) years ago so no longer have any knowledge of what's going on with them. But I can tell you that those models never streamed one to the other - you had to transfer the shows to watch on the other machine.

    The upside was that you could make one mirror the other and so had a full backup at all times (although you could mostly do that by duplicating Season Passes, of course).

    The downside was that you had to wait for the transfer to complete before you could watch that show. I suspect the Series 3, which I believe was the first full fledged HD home DVR (and not some cable company trash), gave the MPAA heartburn. They don't like for anything to be able to record protected content, even TiVo to TiVo. They hated the very idea of the TiVo, and it was only the extraordinary protection measures TiVo took that even got the MPAA to relent and let them ship once HD became a thing. These days, I have the Roamio and four Minis, and that seems to work OK most of the time.

    Once the Roamio dies, I'm done with TiVo. I've been with them and a huge fan and booster since the very first Series 1, but streaming services are eating the concept of local storage alive and there's no comparison between the garbage compressed to hell quality of my Spectrum cable feed and streaming feeds (not TiVo's fault, but nonetheless...). 9-11 Mb/s MPG (a 22 year old terrible codec that needs to be euthanized) is complete trash.

    That, by the way, is one of the features of kmttg - it will tell you what the data rate of your recordings are as they were sent by the source (the TiVo just records the stream it is sent without adding further compression).

    While I do enjoy having 'offline' content, the cost of cable and the idiosyncratic behavior of the requited Tuning Adapter on my Spectrum system are signaling end of life for this type of setup for me. I already have two higher end streaming devices (AppleTV4K and Shield Pro), and several retired Amazon Firestick4Ks (don't like them very much), and we spend less and less time watching live cable/recordings on the Roamio.

    I suspect my monthly streaming bill will be no smaller than my cable TV bill, but I will have a broader content selection with hugely superior video and audio quality. As long as I have Internet service.
     
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  9. Mar 2, 2021 #10449 of 10473
    mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    I think they're both useful (streaming and tivo). I even pay for "duplicate" sources.. I watch commercial free (except for the stupid 'bug' that is now even on streaming services, and the few-second network promo before a show) on streaming when possible.. But shows expire..

    and I can't watch faster than realtime on any of the streaming services. (Youtube has it for youtube videos, does it have it for their TV services? and if it does, can you make it so that it always starts at a faster-than-realtime speed by default?)

    and the transport controls are basically terrible on streaming. (with The Voice, I watch JUST the performances, and not even the full one of all of those.. With Battlebots, I watch the actual battles at normal speed and the rest of the show at 1.7 or 1.9x depending on the day)

    So I realize streaming is "taking over", but I think it will be quite a while before cable entirely goes away. (You very often see people asking "why can't I get my streaming services bundled together, like cable".. and there ARE ways of sort of doing that in various ways e.g. on Apple TV, and adding channels on hulu or amazon prime video.)
     
  10. Mar 2, 2021 #10450 of 10473
    mattack

    mattack Well-Known Member

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    Yes, AFAIK Premiere 4 is the first one that had streaming instead of transferring. I now have a used tivo mini to use on my main TV (mostly so I could have "Roamio Pro" UI on both TVs, and not necessarily have to get a new cable outlet to move one existing tivo.).. and really, scheduling new recordings via 'normal' UI (instead of 'view upcoming' on an existing show) is one of the relatively few things you can do that you can't do on one tivo directly talking to another tivo. (It bummed me out that I can't change channel settings through the mini. I had expected it to be as close to driving the actual tivo it was paired with as possible. It's still worthwhile though.)
     
  11. Mar 3, 2021 #10451 of 10473
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    I assume you mean with TE4 since TiVo Desktop works fine with my S3, Roamio and Bolt with TE3?

    Scott
     
  12. Mar 3, 2021 #10452 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Thanks for sharing some of the history of the Series 3.
    I imagine it did. I understand you can transfer/copy protected HD content via component video out, whereas HDMI will block it. Don't have firsthand experience, am OTA only, and some Netflix/youtube/Amazon Prime/IMDB etc. streaming with the Edges, which are quick and snappy. Roamio does Netflix & youtube, but a bit slow.
    This seems to be the sentiment of many. As usual, I am the last one to the party, and miss out on a lot of the good stuff.
    Would be handy, as I believe piTivo converts or processes the video, not sure if it recompresses or changes data rate. Seems too fast for that. The "MediaInfo" program does that for media files on a PC. I have a PCI Hauppauge OTA tuner that captures as broadcast, and it is useful to know the data rates, etc. The networks have lowered the data rates the last 10 years to cram more stuff into their allotted bandwidth.

    Apparently the S3 has little value, I don't see myself using it, but seems like an HD DVR with lifetime guide would be nice for someone that has no DVR. I'm repairing it to sell or give away to someone that would appreciate it.
     
  13. Mar 3, 2021 #10453 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Good info. So I'm not missing much by the Series 3 networking being crippled by Tivo. No sense making 2 or 3 phone calls to support and fighting with them to reinstate. It's a matter of picking my battles.

    Yes, I'm finding that being able to setup a recording remotely to my "server" 2TB Roamio 4 tuner would be handy. After buying my first TiVo, an Edge, I was on the fence whether to get a second Edge or a mini. Ended up getting the Edge, at $299 shipped on sale it was only $100 more than a mini, plus I get 2 tuners and a 500GB drive. Minis with 1 Edge not practical, if it works at all. If I had a Roamio at the time I would have bought the mini. Was on the fence before buying the Edge, debated Roamio instead. Feared 4 tuners would be weak. They are great. Better than ChannelMaster DVR+'s 2 tuners in my experience. YMMV.

    After only having experience with an Edge, I got a used Roamio & Series 3. I can now say it's a tossup for me between the Roamio & Edge. Edge is much faster & has auto skip, Roamio and 4 tuners, plus software v3 gives it a slight advantage.

    I like being able to transfer videos from PC to Roamio & have them play. But they don't play on the Edge units. Not sure if they crippled that feature via a,i,a,a missing the 4th a, or if those ever played on an Edge. Plex solves that issue, but I don't like to leave my PC on 24/7 sucking 90 Watts. My 10 watts Synology server will run Plex, but it's processor is too slow, so that doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  14. Mar 3, 2021 #10454 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    They disabled the reach-around 'push' function in the paid 'pro' version. You may be able to download to the TiVo using the TiVo's browse/pull feature, but you can't push anything to the TiVo from your computer as you once could because they disabled the server that did that. I only have TE3 here.
     
  15. Mar 3, 2021 #10455 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    I have a Plex Server running on an Nvidia Shield Pro streaming device (comes built in). It's on 24/7 (even when the Shield is 'sleeping') and draws very little power. The Shield does cost around $200, though. And it's a pretty nice streamer for the most part, although some streaming service app developers tend to sometimes release trashy incomplete apps for it (biggest complaint for me is the number of services where the supplied app only provides 2 channel audio, like CBS AA and for a while HBO MAX). Content from major services like Netflix and Disney+ play back with full high end audio and video support.
     
  16. Mar 3, 2021 #10456 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    All true and valid points. I particularly dislike the transport ballistics while streaming.

    I would like to point out, though, that much of the non-broadcast content on cable is slowly but surely being moved to streaming services, and cable will be left with the dregs - low rated shows and endless repeats. Two examples are the new Discovery+ service and in general HBO. For decades, HBO had a 'new' movie on every Saturday night at 8PM - it was how they introduced new content. Now, that slot has 5, 10, 15 year old 2 and 2.5 star movies, while fresh content comes to MAX. And the hints in ads about the Discovery+ package indicate that any new content generated for the channels in the bundle will only be available to people who subscribe to the service.

    I'm not rushing to get rid of my TiVos in favor of streaming (unless the Roamio fails, in which case the transition will be immediate), but I can see the writing on the wall.

    And if I had good off-air reception here (I have none, zero, even with a huge antenna), I would have made the jump a year ago. But I need the local channels, of which there are many in my area.
     
  17. Mar 4, 2021 #10457 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Thought about trying to run Plex on a Raspberry Pi, think I have the 3B+. Bought it and set up as a guide server for the CM DVR+. Not sure it could do double duty, or if the proc is fast enough. Will have to ck the specs. Synolgy is 2011 model DS211, hardly a powerhouse.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2021 #10458 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    The Pi might be able to stream content, but if it has to transcode anything, I suspect it will fall on its face.
     
  19. Mar 4, 2021 #10459 of 10473
    johnbrown44

    johnbrown44 Member

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    Just read the same thing while doing a search. That explains why my NAS with it's 1.6GHz proc and 256MB RAM is so slow (with plex), to the point of not being usable. Looks like I'll just run the PC when using Plex, and let it sleep when not used.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  20. Mar 4, 2021 #10460 of 10473
    dougdingle

    dougdingle HD Tech

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    Somewhere on the Plex site is a table listing the most commonly available NAS boxes, and their performance when streaming and transcoding at various resolutions. Before the Shield, I ran a TerraMaster 240 NAS box with 4Gb memory, and that worked fine but I did not use it for 4K content.
     

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