Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Apr 3, 2012 #8561 of 10437
    GoEagles

    GoEagles Member

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    Thanks for the information, I have just two notebooks, so I have to find a PC to pull this off.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Apr 5, 2012 #8562 of 10437
    hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    My parents S3 original drive went belly up this week. Being a good son I am trying to prep a drive to take to them. Since I am short on time I went to Best Buy and picked up a Retail WD 1 TB Green drive. It is WDBAAY0010HNC-NRSN on package and a WD10EARX on drive label. According to WD this drive has Advanced Format enabled. I have a WinMFS S3 backup of 11.0f that I am trying to use to restore. I restore with WinMFS and add space to fill 1 TB. At first it wouldn't get beyond Powering Up, but WDIDLE3 got me past that. Then it got to Almost There / Ready Set Go and then rebooted. After reboot it went to green screen. I have tried both with AF jumper on and off and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Luckily I have a WD10EACS and WD10EADS in a Windows Media Center that I am going to swap with this new drive and hopefully that will work. Just wanted to share my experiences in case anyone else comes across them. Getting good drives for the S3 / TiVoHD seems harder every day due to aging architecture / OS-Kernel.
     
  3. Apr 5, 2012 #8563 of 10437
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay TCF Club

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  4. Apr 5, 2012 #8564 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    The EADS should work just fine, it's not a 4K sector drive. The EACS might be, the 20EACS (2TB version) is.

    Which one has the C: partition?

    Burn yourself a copy of the MFS Live cd, then use

    dd_rescue

    with the -v option (so you can see what's going on)

    to "Xerox" the EADS to the EARX

    Then make sure the EARX works in the WMC computer.

    If it does, go ahead and use WinMFS to restore to the EADS, and specify a swap partition size of 512 (that's only about 7 or 8 minutes of video, cheap insurance if the TiVo ever needs the space to fix something).

    Just be sure at all times you keep track of which drive is which, especially when you boot with the MFS Live cd and it's all /dev/sda and /dev/sdb and such. Don't have any drives connected that you don't need to at any given time.
     
  5. Apr 6, 2012 #8565 of 10437
    hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    Well scratch everything I said due to bad backup. Apparently the WinMFS backup I made was bad it seems. I found a 648.tbk in another thread from unitron and restored that and it booted fine. Not sure how I got a bad backup but it was only about 250 MB as opposed to the other one at 300 MB. Apparently the 4K drives work fine in Series 3. I booted it in my S3 and will try it out in my parents tomorrow.
     
  6. Apr 6, 2012 #8566 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that the EARX works in a TiVo?

    How have you got it jumpered?
     
  7. Apr 7, 2012 #8567 of 10437
    hoyty

    hoyty Member

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    Yep, I only tested it for a few hours to make sure it booted and connected to service ok. I have now done a C&D to prep for install in it new permanent home tonight.

    I didn't put any jumpers on it, left it in out of box state.
     
  8. Apr 7, 2012 #8568 of 10437
    Nicholsen

    Nicholsen New Member

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    Nov 4, 2007
    Unitron:

    1. Many thanks for sharing your extensive knowledge. Your posts are invaluable.

    2. I managed to resurrect two TiVo HD units (one of which I got for free with a dead HD) with different versions of the older WD 1.5TB green drives. I was also able to save my old programs on a failing 160 GB original HD, and encourage anyone on the fence who has basic PC hardware skills to give the DIY route a try.

    3. Can you explain your recommendation to increase the swap space to 512. Does that 1) make disk recovery possible when it would not be otherwise in an expanded disk, 2) make disk recovery significantly faster than it would be otherwise on an expanded disk and/or 3) improve performance when in normal use? Can that the swap space be increased after the expansion has been completed?

    Best Regards!
     
  9. Apr 7, 2012 #8569 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Okay, this is not my area of expertise by a long shot.

    Apparently the TiVo software can get mangled sometimes, and sometimes the TiVo can repair that, and needs the swap partition as extra working space while doing it. The bigger the drive, supposedly, the bigger the swap space needed, and if it doesn't have enough it gets stuck in a reboot loop.

    Back in the early days of drive "embiggening", the pioneers worked out a rule of thumb of 1MB of swap for every 2GB of drive.

    I don't know how they came up with it, but I figure they know a lot more than I do about it.

    Is it still necessary? I don't know, but 1GB, or 1000MB, (which you'd use on a 2TB drive) is only about 15 minutes of best quality video, so I figure it's cheap insurance.

    MFS Live and WinMFS can make bigger swap partitions during the restore process, prior to any expansion by partition addition, but jmfs cannot.
     
  10. Apr 13, 2012 #8570 of 10437
    Tallshark

    Tallshark New Member

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    Apr 13, 2012
    Saw at the beginning of this post/faq the upgrade options. None was just adding a second internal drive. Didn't see any post in search. So is this that stupid of a question? Can I just add a second internal drive and not have to put up with a giant (giant for bedroom setup) external box with 2 more wires, or having to swap drives back and forth from computer (to keep recorded shows) to install one larger drive?

    Thanks!

    P.S.
    Almost forgot, it is a tivo hd.

    P.S.S.
    Been a Tivo head since single tuner series 2 came out.
     
  11. Apr 13, 2012 #8571 of 10437
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    No room. No power. No connector. No s/w support. Need more?
     
  12. Apr 13, 2012 #8572 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    Second drive on a Series 3 or 4 doesn't work like the second drive on an S1 or S2.

    On an S1 or S2, if the media partitions on the first drive don't have enough room left, shows go on the partion(s) on the second drive.

    S3 and S4, each show recorded gets put partly on the first drive and partly on the second, so if either drive fails you lose everything recorded since the second drive was added. It's one of those DRM things to keep the content providers happy.

    Adding a second drive is thought by many to double the chance of drive failure.

    Better to copy your S3 HD's original drive to a larger one and set the original aside on the shelf.

    You can probably get a lot more GB per $ buying a bigger internal drive than either of the WD externals that are the only ones which will work with the S3s and S4s.

    What kind of spare drives have you got lying around?
     
  13. Apr 13, 2012 #8573 of 10437
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    He wasn't asking about the advantages of changing the internal drive vs. adding a second drive, he was asking why he couldn't install an additional internal drive instead of an external drive.
     
  14. Apr 13, 2012 #8574 of 10437
    Yuterald

    Yuterald Member

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    Is it that it's been 'that' long since Tivo HD users have had to upgrade their HDs? I ask since the first page has only a handful of 1TB drives to use and the prices for those are outrageous. Anyone try a 'newer' 1TB drive and have success? At this point I've had some issues (I think it's the external WD Book) so I think I'll get a 1TB drive 'just in case'.
     
  15. Apr 13, 2012 #8575 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    If you don't mind doing a lot of jury-rigging, you can put a second drive inside an S3 HD, but it'll be the equivalent of an external as far as how the TiVo treats it.

    As I point out, it's not the same as adding a slave on the S2 or S2 IDE cable.
     
  16. Apr 13, 2012 #8576 of 10437
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    Has anyone actually done this? Assuming you can actually cram a second drive in there, it's still a Really.Bad.Idea just on the basis of the additional load on the power supply and the additional heat. You would not just be adding the heat of the drive, you would be adversely affecting the air flow.

    My point was that he already understood the arguments of changing the main drive vs. adding a second drive. The difference in the way an S1/S2 treats an additional drive vs. an S3/S4 is irrelevant, as is how they are connected (PATA vs. SATA).
     
  17. Apr 13, 2012 #8577 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    So he came here to ask a bunch of questions to which he already knew the answers? :confused:
     
  18. Apr 13, 2012 #8578 of 10437
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    Um, no. He was asking why there were no instructions/discussion about adding an additional internal drive. He wants the additional capacity w/o replacing the existing drive or adding to the clutter.

    I think the bottom line is a combination of both of our second posts on the subject - with a lot of jury-rigging , you can install a second "internal" drive. This is probably more work than that involved in creating a larger replacement internal drive and is A.Really.Bad.Idea.
     
  19. Apr 13, 2012 #8579 of 10437
    unitron

    unitron Well-Known Member

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    I said putting a second drive inside an S3 HD is possible, and elsewhere I've even mentioned how to tap off power for it, but that's not the same as recommending that anyone actually do so, or thinking that it's a good idea.

    Allow me to state for the record:

    It is not a good idea.

    Considering the way recordings are split on S3s and S4s, I don't consider a second drive a good idea no matter where it's located.

    Unless it's located inside a computer running TiVo Desktop or something else that can make back up copies of the shows the TiVo records.

    That I consider a good idea.

    Besides, as I understand it, you can't easily use an approved external on an S3 HD and have a larger than stock internal anyway, so you can get more space replacing the internal with a 2TB instead. (secret recipe available upon request)
     
  20. Apr 13, 2012 #8580 of 10437
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    I never thought you were recommending it. Shall we agree to, well, agree?:D

    I also agree with you on the adding another drive option - if you are going to go that route, add it to your computer. You can get a lot more space that way and you don't add another point of failure to your TiVo.

    Current drive prices being what they are, adding space in any manner is a bit expensive. Unfortunately, the latest word is that it will likely remain that way at least through this year.
     

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