Does this look right

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by timchi29, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. Apr 9, 2020 #1 of 44
    timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    Please take a look at the sketch and give me your thoughts. My minis keep on losing connection every few hours. Comcast installed a POE Filter at their pedestal 50' away in the back and will move inside if needed. Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Apr 9, 2020 #2 of 44
    tatergator1

    tatergator1 Well-Known Member

    2,280
    462
    Mar 27, 2008
    Columbus, Ohio
    Looks fine. Assuming the MOCA network is generated by the Roamio and only feeds the Minis, it would be best to put the POE filter on the input side of the 3-way feeding the minis/Roamio.
     
  3. Apr 9, 2020 #3 of 44
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Simple enough.

    It probably depends on the quality of the splitters and cable connections.

    You should probably install a POE filter at the street input splitter.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Apr 9, 2020 #4 of 44
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

    53,710
    2,519
    Dec 3, 2000
    Long...
    To explain a bit of the recommendations you're getting...

    The purpose of the POE filter is so you aren't leaking the MoCA signal outside your home. If it leaked, someone could access your internet service with most any MoCA device. It could also create problems for others or allow others to create problems for you, since two different MoCA-network-creating devices are not supposed exist on the same physical network and be able to see each other. So there's no real benefit to placing the POE filter anywhere expect at the place your cable service enters your home.

    An exception to that would be if, for example, your cable modem could generate a MoCA network too, and you preferred to have your TiVo perform that function. In that case, you may prefer to put the filter at the input to the splitter feeding the TiVo's. However if that were the case (that the cable modem generated a MoCA network, too) you'd still want a POE filter on the primary cable service entrance for the same reasons.
     
  5. Apr 9, 2020 #5 of 44
    timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    Thanks everyone. Could the lack of POE filter be causing the issue with the minis losing connection? The splitters are 5-1000Mhz if that helps.
     
  6. Apr 9, 2020 #6 of 44
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Pictures of the splitters would be helpful. Or at least model numbers.

    Also, MoCA Signal Levels from the Network Settings in the TiVo's and the Router MoCA Diagnostics page would go a long way.

    -KP
     
  7. Apr 9, 2020 #7 of 44
    timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    On each mini, I see two sets of levels under Mac

    Bedroom mini:
    Peer Node Mac
    TX power -25
    RX power - 41.004
    Peer Node Mac
    TX power -25
    RX power - 46.004

    Living Room mini:
    Peer Node Mac
    TX power -18
    RX power - 44.007
    Peer Node Mac
    TX power -18
    RXpower -42.02

    And the pics of the splitters
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Apr 9, 2020 #8 of 44
    kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    How far apart are the 2-port splitter and the 3-port splitter?

    Any chance they could all be connected to a single Powered Splitter?

    There's a good chance that the -7db port on the 3 way splitter is causing your issues and putting everything on a Unity Gain Amp would solve it.

    -KP
     
  9. Apr 9, 2020 #9 of 44
    timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    They are about a foot apart. So would that be a 4 way splitter?
     
  10. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
  11. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    It's not impossible to convince Comcast to provide one for you as well as install it.

    -KP
     
  12. timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    Thanks for the info. A tech is suppose to come out Friday to drop off the POE Filter. Is this something they have on them, or do I need to call ahead and request it. I wonder if they will push back because its not their equipment that needs it. Will the line to the modem go through this amp also?
     
  13. dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

    53,710
    2,519
    Dec 3, 2000
    Long...
    Generally splitters rated 5-1000MHz still manage to do OK with MOCA signals in the above 1000MHz range, but if you're experiencing problems, I'd certainly consider replacing them with MoCA-rated ones. There shouldn't be any real issue using two separate splitters; if you were splitting 3 or more times I might consider trying to ensure you balance everything so as to try to get roughly the same signal level to every outlet, but your setup is far from uncommon so shouldn't be a problem. Similarly 5 total outputs should not require amplification of any sort.

    POE filter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SLD9QPH
    2-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0113JAN8K
    3-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017T9KKHW
    4-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017T9KF1S
    6-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KCY5MBU

    Home Depot or Lowes may also have something you could use if you wanted to try for something you can get immediately, but POE filters may be harder to find.
     
  14. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Most Comcast Techs ought to have a similar device on their truck.

    When they get there just tell them they you were told it was going to be a Unity Gain Amp with built-in MoCA POE.

    It ought not take him 5 minutes to hook it up. He'll need access to an electrical outlet, though it can be 'phantom powered' off of one of the ports too.

    If you could convince him to check your wall-plate connections, that would go a long way, too...

    Get some fresh 6' jumpers, too.

    -KP
     
  15. kpeters59

    kpeters59 Well-Known Member

    2,817
    574
    Jun 19, 2007
    Houston, Texas
    Can you log in to your router (the login info is on the side label) and see what your DOCSIS Signal Levels are like?

    -KP
     
  16. timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    With this option, should the line to the modem go through this moca splitter, or still have a two way and have the modem line bypass.
     
  17. timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    SNR is 39.7db
    Or the Downstream Bonded Channels power is between -1 and -2.7 dbmv
    The Upstream Bonded Channels power is between 43.8 and 49.8 dbmv
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  18. dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

    53,710
    2,519
    Dec 3, 2000
    Long...
    Street -- POE Filter -- Splitter(s)/Outlets inside the house

    The POE filter allows signals from 5MHz to 1000 MHz to pass and blocks signals from 1125 MHz to 1525 MHz. This keeps your MoCA signals from leaking to the outside world and allows all the cable modem/cable video signals to pass through bidirectionally.

    Cable system based MoCA uses beacons in that 1125MHz - 1525MHz range for equipment to locate a MoCA network and to communicate over it. (DirecTV and FiOS systems will use a different frequency plan because of how they utilize certain frequency bands within their coax system.)

    You want to make sure everything in your house is able to communicate with the MoCA-network-creating device in those upper bands, so you want to avoid any splitters that may not allow enough of the signal to pass bidirectionally in that range about 1125MHz.

    Now generally the cable modem is the only device communicating to the outside world over the coax, so generally it's best to keep the cable modem having a decent path and a minimum of splitters between the street and the cable modem.

    Every splitter suffers a certain amount of signal loss from the input to each of its outputs. Splitters with an odd number of outputs may come in balanced and unbalanced formats... yours is an unbalanced one, having a -3.5db output and two -7db outputs... exactly as you'd get if you used (2) 2-way splitters, with one of them connected to the output of the other.

    Every length of cable also represents a certain amount of signal loss, about -1.5db per 100 feet. It's more complicated than that since the signal loss differs depending on frequency, too, but you get the idea here. But generally you always want to use the least amount of coax you really need for every run.

    Now since your MoCA-network-creating device is connected to the same splitter as the 2 devices that need to access the MoCA network, the most likely problem you have is one or more of:

    1) The 3-way splitter is not passing much of that higher range signal.
    2) You're getting some interference from a secondary MoCA-network-creating device outside your home (or even possibly the cable modem itself, if it can create a MoCA network and that isn't getting disabled).
    3) You have a bad cable/cable short/intermittent connection in a connector somewhere within the coax cables fed from the 3-way splitter.

    Disconnect the input to the 3-way splitter; completely remove the outside world from the equation. The Mini's should still be able to function since they can reach the Roamio on the MoCA network, and you should be able to play recordings and browse Now Playing. That removes the POE filter and the 2-way Splitter and the Cable Modem from being a source of any possible interference.
     
  19. timchi29

    timchi29 Member

    69
    0
    Feb 25, 2005
    In
    Is there a good receive level that I should be getting at the minis?
     
  20. dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

    53,710
    2,519
    Dec 3, 2000
    Long...
    I doubt there's enough diagnostic info provided on the Roamio or mini's to explore too much. And it's most likely going to be the Roamio side where you really want to see if it's receiving info from the mini's reliably.

    If you have 2 2-way splitters and some coax, or any other 3-way splitter, you could do a quick test and just replace your existing 3-way splitter and see if you continue having problems.
     

Share This Page