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Does this look right

3K views 43 replies 7 participants last post by  dswallow 
#1 ·
Please take a look at the sketch and give me your thoughts. My minis keep on losing connection every few hours. Comcast installed a POE Filter at their pedestal 50' away in the back and will move inside if needed. Thanks!
 

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#4 ·
To explain a bit of the recommendations you're getting...

The purpose of the POE filter is so you aren't leaking the MoCA signal outside your home. If it leaked, someone could access your internet service with most any MoCA device. It could also create problems for others or allow others to create problems for you, since two different MoCA-network-creating devices are not supposed exist on the same physical network and be able to see each other. So there's no real benefit to placing the POE filter anywhere expect at the place your cable service enters your home.

An exception to that would be if, for example, your cable modem could generate a MoCA network too, and you preferred to have your TiVo perform that function. In that case, you may prefer to put the filter at the input to the splitter feeding the TiVo's. However if that were the case (that the cable modem generated a MoCA network, too) you'd still want a POE filter on the primary cable service entrance for the same reasons.
 
#38 ·
Could the lack of POE filter be causing the issue with the minis losing connection?
Yes. (But may not be lone hurdle.)

I'd suggest replacing the 3-way splitter with one that handles frequencies up to 1675MHz, and place the PoE filter directly on the input of the 3-way splitter. You could just buy your own PoE and leave the other one out on the pole, but you should see much better MoCA signals after putting a PoE directly on the 3-way splitter.
Has the OP stated that the Roamio DVR is acting as the Ethernet/MoCA bridge? Or is the modem/router?

s your cable modem where the MoCA network is getting created or is it happening with the Roamio (and you have an Ethernet connection between the Roamio and the cable modem)?
^this^

That's a whole lotta posts and the most critical aspect of the setup remains unknown, right?

For that matter, what specific Roamio model does the OP have? And how is it networked? Ethernet? MoCA? Wireless?
 
#7 ·
On each mini, I see two sets of levels under Mac

Bedroom mini:
Peer Node Mac
TX power -25
RX power - 41.004
Peer Node Mac
TX power -25
RX power - 46.004

Living Room mini:
Peer Node Mac
TX power -18
RX power - 44.007
Peer Node Mac
TX power -18
RXpower -42.02

And the pics of the splitters
 

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#8 ·




How far apart are the 2-port splitter and the 3-port splitter?

Any chance they could all be connected to a single Powered Splitter?

There's a good chance that the -7db port on the 3 way splitter is causing your issues and putting everything on a Unity Gain Amp would solve it.

-KP
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the info. A tech is suppose to come out Friday to drop off the POE Filter. Is this something they have on them, or do I need to call ahead and request it. I wonder if they will push back because its not their equipment that needs it. Will the line to the modem go through this amp also?
 
#13 ·
Generally splitters rated 5-1000MHz still manage to do OK with MOCA signals in the above 1000MHz range, but if you're experiencing problems, I'd certainly consider replacing them with MoCA-rated ones. There shouldn't be any real issue using two separate splitters; if you were splitting 3 or more times I might consider trying to ensure you balance everything so as to try to get roughly the same signal level to every outlet, but your setup is far from uncommon so shouldn't be a problem. Similarly 5 total outputs should not require amplification of any sort.

POE filter: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SLD9QPH
2-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0113JAN8K
3-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017T9KKHW
4-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017T9KF1S
6-way: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KCY5MBU

Home Depot or Lowes may also have something you could use if you wanted to try for something you can get immediately, but POE filters may be harder to find.
 
#14 ·
Most Comcast Techs ought to have a similar device on their truck.

When they get there just tell them they you were told it was going to be a Unity Gain Amp with built-in MoCA POE.

It ought not take him 5 minutes to hook it up. He'll need access to an electrical outlet, though it can be 'phantom powered' off of one of the ports too.

If you could convince him to check your wall-plate connections, that would go a long way, too...

Get some fresh 6' jumpers, too.

-KP
 
#18 ·
Street -- POE Filter -- Splitter(s)/Outlets inside the house

The POE filter allows signals from 5MHz to 1000 MHz to pass and blocks signals from 1125 MHz to 1525 MHz. This keeps your MoCA signals from leaking to the outside world and allows all the cable modem/cable video signals to pass through bidirectionally.

Cable system based MoCA uses beacons in that 1125MHz - 1525MHz range for equipment to locate a MoCA network and to communicate over it. (DirecTV and FiOS systems will use a different frequency plan because of how they utilize certain frequency bands within their coax system.)

You want to make sure everything in your house is able to communicate with the MoCA-network-creating device in those upper bands, so you want to avoid any splitters that may not allow enough of the signal to pass bidirectionally in that range about 1125MHz.

Now generally the cable modem is the only device communicating to the outside world over the coax, so generally it's best to keep the cable modem having a decent path and a minimum of splitters between the street and the cable modem.

Every splitter suffers a certain amount of signal loss from the input to each of its outputs. Splitters with an odd number of outputs may come in balanced and unbalanced formats... yours is an unbalanced one, having a -3.5db output and two -7db outputs... exactly as you'd get if you used (2) 2-way splitters, with one of them connected to the output of the other.

Every length of cable also represents a certain amount of signal loss, about -1.5db per 100 feet. It's more complicated than that since the signal loss differs depending on frequency, too, but you get the idea here. But generally you always want to use the least amount of coax you really need for every run.

Now since your MoCA-network-creating device is connected to the same splitter as the 2 devices that need to access the MoCA network, the most likely problem you have is one or more of:

1) The 3-way splitter is not passing much of that higher range signal.
2) You're getting some interference from a secondary MoCA-network-creating device outside your home (or even possibly the cable modem itself, if it can create a MoCA network and that isn't getting disabled).
3) You have a bad cable/cable short/intermittent connection in a connector somewhere within the coax cables fed from the 3-way splitter.

Disconnect the input to the 3-way splitter; completely remove the outside world from the equation. The Mini's should still be able to function since they can reach the Roamio on the MoCA network, and you should be able to play recordings and browse Now Playing. That removes the POE filter and the 2-way Splitter and the Cable Modem from being a source of any possible interference.
 
#22 ·
Which device is connected to the -7dB port?

You may consider swapping them around.

You could probably get the Comcast guy to 'spot' you some splitters. The Comcast splitters are good quality and function.

Still, just wait for him and see what you can get him to do.

Intermittent MoCA can easily be bad connections at the connectors behind wallplates or, really, any crimp on the line.

Also, it looks like you have quite a bit of excess cable in the attic. Maybe not so much it would really make a difference. But, your MoCA levels would be better if they were all closer to 0dB.

You can log in to your Comcast Router at: http://10.0.0.1 and check it's levels, too.

admin
password

-KP
 
#23 ·
I'd suggest replacing the 3-way splitter with one that handles frequencies up to 1675MHz, and place the PoE filter directly on the input of the 3-way splitter. You could just buy your own PoE and leave the other one out on the pole, but you should see much better MoCA signals after putting a PoE directly on the 3-way splitter.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Pretty sure the TiVo's are getting to the internet through the MoCA capable Comcast Gateway, so blocking MoCA to the Router would be bad...

I think that 3-way is labeled backwards to most other 3-ways.



Usually they're marked as 2 -3.5db's and a single -7dB.

So, I think the one in this pic marked as 'out 3.5dB' is actually the -7dB port. They just 'worded' it inversely...

Swap them around then recheck your MoCA levels. Make sure your connections are snugged up pretty tight. Comcast installers are required to use a wrench to tighten connections at the splitters.

-KP
 
#28 ·
The attenuation would be twice that on 2 of the ports as it is on the 3rd port of an unbalanced 3-way splitter. Splitting a signal attenuated by 3.5db already will result in a total attenuation of approximately 7db on its two outputs. They're just choosing to label it as an attenuation measure (positive) instead of as a signal loss measure (negative)
 
#34 ·
At the end of the day, it boils down to trial and error. Intuitively speaking, for best connectivity, I would recommend trying a different cable configuration. Perhaps eliminate the three terminal connector, using that feed to connect to the TiVo. Then use a two way splitter from the TiVo output to the minis. It may or may not work, but worth a try if nothing else helps. One of my family members has been successfully using a “powerline ethernet connector” setup to run the minis. Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#40 ·
Replaced the splitters and added POE Filter, and still sporadic lost connections to the mini's. I'm going to check the attic today to see if there is a splitter there. I assume there is since the coax in the bedroom heads up the wall. One thing that I forgot to mention is when I put the one mini downstairs on ethernet a couple weeks ago, it lost connection also. Could the Roamio be the issue?
 
#42 ·
Start small and grow out until you see problems occur. By small, I mean make a direct coax connection from the Roamio to a single Mini and see if it behaves. If that works, move it to an existing single segment of your house wiring; then add a splitter somewhere and the second mini, and then the cable modem segment, etc. But if the direct connect works consistently, then at least you know it's a lot less likely to be that hardware.
 
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