Does my TiVo need to be online all the time?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by fairnymph, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. fairnymph

    fairnymph New Member

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    Mar 25, 2008

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    I do not have a router. I DO have a GigaFast 5 port ethernet switch. My cable modem has only one ethernet out which goes to my desktop. I was informed that a switch will not work, so in order to get my TiVo online (which I have yet to achieve), I have to plug directly into the modem, and thus my computer cannot be online.

    Now...I was also told that the TiVo only needs to get online every 2 weeks to get scheduling info, and does not need continuous internet access. Is this true? If so I can be offline briefly while TiVo does its thing. But, if any of you know a way that both my comp and the TiVo can be online without purchasing further devices, that'd be fabulous!

    Of course, this is presuming I can activate...I get the N13 error message no matter what I try and after nearly an hour with tech support...

    TimeWarnerCable M card, HD TiVo, Mac Pro running leopard, and a standard cable internet modem, if any of that info helps.

    Thanks!
     
  2. slaponte

    slaponte The Iron Monkey

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    Apr 6, 2005
    Miami, FL
    Lets see :

    No, the Tivo doesn't have to be on all the time. It usually trys once a day to log in and get updates etc. Is a configuration setting. It usually downloads 2 weeks of programming info, so if one day it can't get in it will try the next day.

    The best solution would be to find an inexpensive router. I think my latest one was $29 or so. A router (step up from a switch), will allow you to keep both devices on.

    Something that could work : if the PC has XP, you could configure connection sharing on it, hook them both to the switch, and this setup might work. The way that works is the Tivo talks to the PC to get to the internet. This would mean leaving the PC on always, IF it works. I haven't tried it, but in theory...

    But setting that up might be worst that buying the router... :)
     
  3. ciper

    ciper Active Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    If you don't want a router you could always hack the modem to allow more devices to get an address. I configured mine to allow up to 255 CPE :)

    My only concern is the safety of the Tivo. I doubt much has been done in the way of hardening so it could be the recipient of DOS attacks.
     
  4. JacksTiVo

    JacksTiVo TiVo User since 2001

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    Jan 7, 2006
    New Jersey
    It probably will not work if you disconnect your PC and then reconnect your TiVo to the modem since your cable provider assigns and IP address to your PC which does not transfer to the TiVo.

    Try these steps in this order. Shutdown your PC and unplug from the modem. Unplug your modem from its power source (turn it off).

    Plug in your modem. After all the lights are steady connect the Tivo to the modem then attempt to connect the TiVo to the Internet. Make sure the TiVo is configured to have an IP address assigned to it.

    If this does not work, then the solution is to install a router as slaponte recommends.
     
  5. fairnymph

    fairnymph New Member

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    Mar 25, 2008

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    Gee, thanks for randomly logging me out and deleting my long reply, ****** tivo forum!

    To summarize:

    My MP actually has two network cards, as it turns out, so I was able to use my secondary ethernet port and my switch to create a router, and miraculously, the TiVo connected and activated perfectly with this set up! I still cannot fathom how a much more complicated system worked, but plugging DIRECTLY into my cable modem did not, but I'm thankful and everything is working perfectly now.

    Thank you for the responses. :)
     
  6. dshinnick

    dshinnick Member

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    Jun 6, 2003
    Oh man! I am a computer network instructor. Having your computer connected directly to your cable modem is INCREDIBLY dangerous. You can't see them, but there are hundreds of attempted attacks against your machine every hour. To prove that this is true, get a router with a logging function; you'll see real quickly that what I'm saying is true.

    Getting a router has many benefits:

    1. EVEN IF you only have ONE device which requires internet access, it protects that machine from the constant onslaught of attacks and probes from the internet.

    2. gives multiple devices in your house internet access. It has a built-in switch.

    3. provides other network services to the networked devices in your house.

    4. gives access from the internet to the networked devices in your house, if you should choose.

    Just go to Best Buy, etc, and get virtually any off-the-shelf router and install it! They install very easily nowadays, and it'll be the best thing you've done for yourself in a long time. Having your computer connected directly to the internet is what the hackers/spammers/virus creators PRAY for! You have virtually no protection whatsoever. You are just on your knees begging to be compromised or infected.

    I've gone through many routers, wired and wireless, and the very best one I've found is the Dlink DIR-625. It has been running without a reboot for over 4 months.

    Here's a small snippet of my router's log. Notice that these entries cover a FIVE MINUTE time frame, from 2:36 to 2:41. All of the "Blocked Incoming..." messages are the result of the router's blocking an attempt from some idiot on the internet trying to worm his way into my network. I've tracked some of these addresses to all over the world: Asia, south Africa, Russia, and more. If I had had my computer connected directly to my cable modem, many of these attacks/probes would have SUCCEEDED.

    Dave

    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:41:51 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 24.10.2.21:52561 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:41:42 2008 Previous message repeated 2 times
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:41:19 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 24.127.104.184:3037 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:41:10 2008 Previous message repeated 2 times
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:55 2008 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 87.240.245.51:30777 to 68.4.150.99:1026
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:48 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.11.27.209:50054 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:43 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 67.168.230.122:3277 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:27 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 208.67.128.11:27492 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:21 2008 Previous message repeated 1 time
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:20 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 68.97.214.57:36201 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:19 2008 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 206.243.183.218:30777 to 68.4.150.99:1026
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:18 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 208.104.107.91:58094 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:18 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 208.67.128.11:27492 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:16 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 68.199.146.161:1202 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:15 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.24.154.218:1217 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:14 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 76.101.70.0:6724 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:14 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 98.197.76.222:50864 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:12 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 75.94.234.75:2492 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:06 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 70.48.52.90:61569 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:40:03 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 69.133.36.209:52045 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:51 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 98.194.225.186:1482 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:46 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.84.195.239:4405 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:41 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 68.56.83.248:12080 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:28 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 66.220.106.1:2951 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:19 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 208.120.255.90:9392 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:10 2008 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 122.136.45.47:33814 to 68.4.150.99:1026
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:05 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 69.242.40.246:3068 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:39:05 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 69.142.69.220:4174 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:59 2008 Previous message repeated 1 time
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:58 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 206.248.46.202:55075 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:56 2008 Blocked incoming TCP connection request from 69.142.69.220:4174 to 68.4.150.99:3724
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:56 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 71.229.175.248:55349 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:53 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.174.165.191:1092 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:52 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 68.227.84.214:2535 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:50 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 75.143.197.26:51076 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:50 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 71.145.172.21:2932 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:48 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 10.255.237.100:1128 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:38 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 67.140.143.64:1260 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:36 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 98.20.255.242:61420 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:35 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 71.235.172.179:41854 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:26 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 62.153.213.52:9316 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:23 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.38.204.112:3586 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:19 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 70.187.43.31:4507 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:17 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 74.131.39.48:54242 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:14 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 70.184.105.154:1444 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:09 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 75.42.197.243:54946 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:08 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 65.190.103.189:3668 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:38:04 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 71.202.188.66:2174 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:58 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 58.104.127.93:50129 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:53 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 71.231.85.99:4334 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:45 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 65.29.165.222:4076 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:42 2008 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 222.161.2.45:42670 to 68.4.150.99:1027
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:42 2008 Blocked incoming UDP packet from 222.161.2.45:42667 to 68.4.150.99:1026
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:40 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 72.197.130.170:1888 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:39 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 24.78.141.105:53981 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:32 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 128.211.211.40:3537 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:20 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 67.68.29.251:1278 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:37:05 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 99.240.211.168:3724 to 68.4.150.99:1776 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:36:49 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 69.141.48.58:1312 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:36:45 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 66.58.179.16:47290 to 68.4.150.99:3724 as RST received but there is no active connection
    [INFO] Tue Mar 25 14:36:34 2008 Blocked incoming TCP packet from 69.142.199.252:3724 to 68.4.150.99:1751 as RST received but there is no active connection
     
  7. ciper

    ciper Active Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    dshinnick Don't assume he is running windows. You never know, he could be running a hardened version of linux with a separate VM for his desktop apps!
     
  8. dwit

    dwit Active Member

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    May 4, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    "...Mac Pro running leopard..."
     
  9. fairnymph

    fairnymph New Member

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    Mar 25, 2008
    I'm really not too concerned. I have nothing incriminating or theft-worthy on my computer, nor do I have any tech savvy enemies, soooo...it'd be just another device to clutter my TINY one room apt. I am trying to de-device, not buy yet more electronics!

    I also never buy stuff from major chains. Can you say rip off?

    And yeah, I do have VM Fusion with Windows (for my effin' all in one printer which is not mac compatible, lol). And minesweeper, bc no good mac version exists.
     
  10. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Well-Known Mumbler

    11,736
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    Aug 2, 2003
    It's the computer itself that's theft-worthy -- or rather, its CPU time, bandwidth, etc. The most likely hijacking scenario is that it gets turned into a spam server. Thousands of computers are so afflicted.

    You're safer with a Mac, but still...

    No, you could get rid of the switch if you put a router in its place.
     
  11. RonDawg

    RonDawg Well-Known Member

    27,261
    2,919
    Jan 12, 2006
    Neither...
    In addition to the router replacing the switch, consumer-grade routers nowadays are so tiny they hardly take up room. Many can be mounted vertically or even on the wall to save space.

    Since you have a Mac you may want to check out the elegant though pricey Apple Airport series of networking devices.
     
  12. Dancar

    Dancar Member

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    Oct 8, 2001
    Seattle,...
    A switch is similar to a router. If the switch doesn't work a router won't either (assuming the switch is correctly configured). What may be happening here is that the cable modem is not configured to assign IP addresses and the computer uses a static IP. My suggestion would be have a friend who works in IT come over and assist with the setup.
     
  13. Dancar

    Dancar Member

    757
    0
    Oct 8, 2001
    Seattle,...
    A switch is similar to a router. If the switch doesn't work a router won't either (assuming the switch is correctly configured). What may be happening here is that the cable modem is not configured to assign IP addresses and the computer uses a static IP. My suggestion would be have a friend who works in IT come over and assist with the setup.
     
  14. sathead

    sathead Member

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    8
    Jan 12, 2008
    Funny you mention it, but I was shocked and upset on Sunday morning when I happened to look at my router's security log- I saw IP after IP addresses trying to access my system- sometimes 5 or 6 attempts in a 10 second interval. I did a "traceback" on some of the IP addresses that were hitting my router... I saw addresses from Hong Kong, the UK, Russia, Spain, California, Upstate NY, etc... So I had my router change my WAN IP address that had remained unchanged for over a year... and suddenly all the attack attempts stopped. It was like a night and day difference. Guess I'm going to release my WAN IP address on a monthly basis from now on.
    It's a shame you have to do stuff like this to keep your system safe...
     
  15. Eccles

    Eccles Mostly harmless

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    Dec 27, 2001
    Austin, TX
    I suspect differently. Most cable/DSL modems cache the MAC address of the first device connected to them, and will only give out an IP address to a second MAC address if the account is configured for multiple addresses, so simply moving the network connection from the computer to the TiVo, or just plugging the TiVo into the switch, will result in the TiVo not getting an IP address from the carrier's DHCP server. In order to get an IP address for a different device, you need to power-cycle the modem and connect only the TiVo, as someone already outlined in an earlier post.

    This is why a router allows multiple devices on a single connection; the cable/DSL modem only "sees" the MAC address of the router, and has no knowledge of what's on the other side of it.
     
  16. jtown

    jtown New Member

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    Sep 26, 2002
    Mindboggling. The fact that you don't understand the nature of the danger doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that you shouldn't be concerned. Do you leave your apartment unlocked? Do you leave your car unlocked? Of course not. The idea is absurd. You don't have anything "theftworthy"? So you never check your bank account balance online? You don't have private emails? You don't have a single item you wouldn't be comfortable leaving on the sidewalk?

    You say you don't have any enemies. Neither does the average computer user. This isn't about targeted attacks. These are random people from all over the world looking for any computer to use for any number of purposes. Most of them don't want anything specific to your computer. They want the resources to send out spam or to use as part of an attack on a commercial target. The fact that they can also steal your personal information is just a little bonus. They add it to the list that they sell to someone else.

    Spend the $10 on a router. Any router will do. The very nature of how it works eliminates the danger of random hacking attempts. It's like going from a screen door with a hook latch to a steel door with a deadbolt.

    I was going to post the results of a scan of my XP computer with no firewall running but there's just too much information that I don't want to post in a public forum. I can see what applications are installed, what software updates have been installed, what programs are running, which account is logged in, what shared resources are available, the password policy of the machine, I can read the event logs, see what network transports are running, what services are running, what drivers are installed, etc. Everything necessary to chose the method of attack most likely to succeed.
     
  17. ToddNeedsTiVo

    ToddNeedsTiVo Shampoo is not toxic

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    Sep 1, 2003
    Ankeny, IA
    Any home computer, whether it be Windows or not, should be behind a home router for all the reasons stated above.

    As for your comment about guide data: at any given time, the TiVo usually has about two weeks of guide data on hand. It tries to connect every 24 hours or so to get new guide data. I presume this mostly consists of getting a new day's worth of data out at the future end of the two-week window, along with updates/changes to the existing data between now and then.

    It does need to connect daily, not every two weeks, for proper operation.

    Being connected via broadband also lends itself to scheduling recordings while you're away from home much closer to the time that they'll air.
     
  18. logicman1

    logicman1 New Member

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    Jan 10, 2008
    Carmel, NY
    Yeah what's one more unprotected computer that's been turned into a zombie spam machine? :rolleyes:
     
  19. Dancar

    Dancar Member

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    Oct 8, 2001
    Seattle,...
    Attention!!! A simple router offers NO PROTECTION WHATSOEVER!!!

    A simple router simply allows one device to connect to mutiple devices. You're confusing this to common wireless routers and routers designed to connect multiple computers to a cable modem or DSL box.

    These devices typically do have firewall features. I agree that anyone with a computer on a broadband connection should use one. BE SURE TO READ THE BOX, and don't buy a routing device without a firewall (unless you are a nerd with lots of internet devices, and your home LAN is already protected by a firewall.)

    Even if you have no personal or sensitive data on your computer, you still don't want your PC hyjacked to send spam or DOS attacks.

    Also, don't assume that your TiVo is safe because it doesn't run Windows. While the media key does offer some protection, theoreticaly a TiVo could be hacked or infected with a virus through the internet. When I was running Zone Alarm, I saw hits looking for open ports on Linux systems. While most virus writers target windows, Linux viruses do exist and ones targeting Tivos could be written too.
     
  20. Philmatic

    Philmatic Member

    526
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    Sep 17, 2003
    Your post is so blatantly incorrect, it forced me to log in just so I can respond to this nonsense.

    Every consumer based router uses NAT to share the single IP address that is given from the ISP to to the customer. It takes the public IP address, then creates a private network on the LAN side and handles the communication between them. Things such as relaying packets and opening ports are all handled by the NAT translation code of the router in question. To put it bluntly, all consumer routers offer a basic one way (incoming) firewall. You are perfectly safe if you place a computer behind this machine if your min purpose is to stop would be attackers form coming IN. It does not stop unauthorized data from getting OUT. This is where a software firewall comes into play.

    Stop spreading FUD, a "true hardware firewall" as you say will had additional feature such as content filtering, state packet inspection, built in proxying and some other advanced features. The lack of these features doesn't make the router insecure at all, you're just not getting all the bells and whistles of a "true firewall"

    My recommendation to the OP, get the cheapest Linksys, Netgear, or Belkin router you can get your hands on, most of them can be had for $0 after rebate. This is single handedly the best purchase you can make for your PC and TiVo. You just plug in both and go, you don't need to switch wires or cables and they can both be on the internet at all times.
     

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