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Does anyone have a Series 2 (or 3) Tivo that's still loading the Program Guide?

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by Eliz1, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. gfweiss

    gfweiss Member

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    Feb 27, 2005
    Red Bank, NJ
    My series 2 is an original, purchased in 2006. It works fine connected to Verizon FIOS and updates have no issues. The last connection was today and my Guide Data goes out to March 26th.
     
    Mikeguy and Eliz1 like this.
  2. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    My S2 downloaded and loaded 100% first try, no S03. Wireless adapter, and it is setup for satellite. Also did a couple S3s (they are quicker), both fine, 100% first try. Since the problem for you started while you were still using what worked for you it leads me to believe drive or some other issue with the Tivo. Not sure what you mean about the current drive not being in there for awhile, makes no difference, if it is not connecting 100% successfully then as far as Tivo is concerned it is not connected. The last successful connection date is the only date they will see. If you have lifetime doesn't matter anyway though good to connect at least every month or two, even if not using. Keep in mind, if it has not connected successfully in awhile even though it downloads and loads 100% it is not REALLY done. Program guide info will still be loading in the background for up to a day. So whenever I connect a device that has not connected in awhile I leave it hooked up for a couple days, just to make sure it is FULLY updated. Good luck, for me it would be the drive copy, test and see. A copy has the same subscription info as the original, to Tivo it will look like the original.
     
    Mikeguy and Eliz1 like this.
  3. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    Clear and delete on an S3 is a lot more dangerous than an S2 by the way. For sure if the S3 is setup for cable and has not connected successfully for awhile. If you make the COPY for your S2, then test the COPY, first just try it, if same problem try clear and delete, if locks up you still have the original and can make another copy. Copy cannot be done with just Windows or normal PC drive copy methods, you need to use a Tivo copy type program (Linux), MFS Tools for one. Or if you want to do it from within Windows, Win MFS, easy to use. Good luck.
     
  4. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    Oh, though I know a bit about this there are people here who are light years ahead of me. So if any of them see this and need to correct anything I said, PLEASE DO.
     
  5. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    Great! I’m really happy to hear there are still some S2s functioning well. A hard-drive issue is at least fixable, compared to general S2 obsolescence; and it’s no surprise our hard-drive may have issues given how long our Tivo has served.

    Back to the possible obsolescence idea for a moment, though, one interesting comment from a Tivo CS was that “older” S2s are doing better with the latest software/guide update than "newer" S2s (noting they’re all more than a decade old, of course). Whether or not there's any truth to that is anyone's guess, but our current S2 is one of the last models, or the last model, before the S3s came out.

    The idea of copying or cloning the drive sounds like the best bet for our Tivo - thanks tommage1! Just to check if I understand correctly, if my husband takes out the drive to copy or clone it, a Guided Setup won’t be required when we put it back in? When I called Tivo, even though we hadn’t gotten a program guide update for awhile, they could see what we’d been doing in terms of trying wireless connections, ethernet, etc.

    Before copying the drive, though, my husband’s going to connect one of the other Tivos we have with lifetime memberships to a different TV, and see how that goes. The one he’s going to try first has a direct ethernet connection, model #TCD649080. I’ve read that model doesn’t work with OTA (we don't have cable or satellite), but given the model came out before digital boxes, which is what we have, he thinks it may work with digital data. If not, we have one or two other S2s to try. Based on what I’ve learned here we will let them connect for at least a couple days. I really hope they haven't been disconnected too long, as Tivo warned me they wouldn't connect, if so.
    Thx again!
     
  6. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    That should be correct (no guide setup), assuming the copy or copy and expand is done correctly, ie MFS Tools, Win MFS, some other methods too but those I use all the time. And actually what you say, Tivo knowing you have TRIED to connect even though it did not complete is news to me, interesting, thanks. Almost scary, big brother, monitoring whatever you do...........................
     
  7. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    They commented our wireless connection was weak, saying that could be a problem, but in the meantime we'd already switched to our stronger wireless router and had a very good connection. I mentioned it, and they said they're about an hour or so behind what we do. I started thinking about it and wondering if they know everything I watch, so found it a bit big brotherish, too.

    What kind of drive (or dirives) do you use to copy to; and, if you don't mind me asking, approx. what does the drive cost? I know WeaKnees charges $99 for a pre-loaded drive, so am hoping it would be less than that.
    Thx, again.
     
  8. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    Though you would certainly get a good drive from WeaKnees no way I would pay $99 for an S2 drive, you could buy a used lifetime S2 for less than that (heck even a lifetime S3 for $100 or so). S2 uses IDE (not Sata) drive, you probably have a 40 or 80GB? People recycle those, they should be really cheap, even new if you can find new. Keep in mind though, to make a copy your computer needs to have IDE connections on the motherboard, or you could probably use external enclosure/dock. Or an adapter. It IS a lot of work for an S2. I do it for fun mostly, fix an S2 or S3, I just don't like to see anything go to waste that could still be used. But I would not put a lot of money into it, only if I have the parts needed sitting around. You mentioned you have other old Tivos sitting around, if any are not lifetime you could probably use a drive from one of them. Non active, non lifetime S2/S3 are parts only, Tivo will not activate them anymore.
     
    ClearToLand likes this.
  9. Teeps

    Teeps Well-Known Member

    1,885
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    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    So far yes:
    TiVo: TCD 648250 (life sub); Timewarner cable; 2 cable cards; tuning adapter
     
    rdrrepair likes this.
  10. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    Great! Thank you, Teeps.
    tommage1: Thanks again for info. My husband says this sounds very doable, and he may have a drive already he could use, at least for the troubleshooting aspect if not something that would work long-term. I've also read the capacitors can fail, and he could check and fix any that look bad, if need be, so long as we make a workable copy first. We're also going to first try connecting the other lifetime S-2 units we have, and I sure hope at least one can still be activated. I had no idea there was a need to frequently let them connect and update, though it certainly makes sense now I'm learning more. Will we have to run guided set-up? I'm pretty sure we will, but just thought I'd check. We share a similar philosophy in not liking to let things go to waste, and we are perfectly fine living behind the fore-wave of technology.
     
  11. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    SF Bay Area
    Re-running Guided setup is a bad idea unless the issue is channel related.
     
  12. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    3 S2 and 3 S3 all downloaded and loaded with no issues. They had connected last within approximately a month. All setup for OTA except one S2 for satellite. S3s using Ethernet, the S2s wireless G. I did hookup one S2 that has not connected in over 6 months. It did get an S03 on first attempt. I'm going to just let it do it's thing without forcing any connections, pretty sure it will work out.
     
  13. tommage1

    tommage1 Active Member

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    Nov 5, 2008
    The 6 month S2 connected the second time (about 12 hours after the first S03 attempt). For Eliz, I'm guessing your others will be fine. A lot will depend on just how long it has been since they connected. If a REALLY long time, ie before Tivo merged with Rovi, it may get tricky, they will have to update to Rovi guide etc. But should work out, if you get S03s just keep them hooked up and let them work out on their own, could take days. If you are in the same zip code and don't need to change providers should not have to run guided setup either. As has been mentioned, it is always good to connect every few months or so regardless. For one to be up to date. Second, Tivo occasionally has upgrade offers for old Tivo box owners, but ONLY if the old boxes have connected within a certain time frame. So best to keep them ALL up to date. If you get at least one of your other boxes working you can use that one and repair the box in question at your leisure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  14. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    That's great news, tommage1! Thank you very much for checking this. I'm really glad to hear your S2s and S3s are working! I am going with that plan, to do our best to get at least one of the other lifetime Tivos going, then attend to trying to fix the current Tivo getting S03. In the meantime, with the S03 Tivo, I won't force any connections or do any hard reboots, and will just let it do it's thing and see if it might work itself out.

    ThAbtO, thanks for the warning about Guided Setup. Fortunately I had discovered that would be a likely fatal approach before trying it; and so before doing anything else with the S03 Tivo we're going to make a backup of the drive.
    My first choice would be do try a delete programs option, but only after copying the drive. I'm playing it ultra safe in hopes of getting another Tivo going first.

    In the meantime, I'm using record by date and time, and the repeat option, to record my favorite shows on the S03 Tivo, and using an on-ling zap2it TV guide to double check my choices. I don't record a lot of shows so this is okay for a temporary solution. We also have Netflix.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  15. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the database gets corrupted and you get S03 errors that don't resolve on their own. Although this can be due to hard drive failure, often it's just caused by a bug that pops up from time to time. Selecting "Clear to do list and guide data" will reset that database without losing your recordings. And if it doesn't work, you'll still have access to your recordings (unlike guided setup).
     
    HerronScott likes this.
  16. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    Thank you, BobCamp1. My gut says what you're saying is right, and that doing a "Clear to do list and guide data" might just fix my problem, unless it's a hard drive issue. It may well be a hard drive issue, though, since this Tivo had been cheerfully operating with little problem for a long time. We want to try hooking up another lifetime Tivo first, before trying the "Clear to do list and guide data" with the S03'd Tivo, just in case that might do it in. It will take a little time to test another Tivo, as we have to set it up somewhere else, so as not to disconnect the S03 Tivo. This is also being extra cautious, but we're in no great hurry. I'd rather proceed slowly, with a little more hassle, than find myself Tivoless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  17. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    9,035
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    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    The S03 error usually occur when its trying to clear out old guide data (garbage collection) and its having problems. This can happen with alot of channels to clean up. Time seems to be the better solution.

    It does not hurt to force Tivo connections every 4-6 hrs (as long as it allows it) and note the progress if it hits S03 again. Example: it progressed from 1% to 2% or more, then it will eventually clear itself out.
     
  18. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    Hi. Thanks! I only once got above 1%, and that was the first time we hooked it up to ethernet, after a long-time phone connection. It had been doing the S03 for several days, not getting any guide data, and it suddenly went to 3% and I got a very exciting five more days of guide data. We were on the phone wtih Tivo at the time, and I've sort of pondered if maybe they did something from their end, since it never happened again, but I doubt that. At that point we had strung the cable across the room (could change that situation, of course, but at the moment we were just trying it out), and it didn't seem to help much from there, so we went back to wireless (weak signal) so we wouldn't have a yellow cable in the room, then to phone connection since our wireless signal was weak, then we got it working on wireless on our stronger router (good signal), and at last we decided to go back to ethernet to have the best chance of the guide data fixing itself. (I think with phone connection it never even get to 1%.)

    I had read some people, if the percent is increasing, can get the whole guide to load by multiple forced connections, and I've tried a few back to back, but could get the percentage above 1% again. We now have it connected to ethernet, and barring a miracle I don't expect that guide to load. So, we're going to see if we can get another Tivo Series 2 we have with lifetime sub up and running, then will copy the drive on the S03 Tivo (keeping the original intact) and take things from there in troubleshooting it.

    I do have one other symptom. On occasion whatever show I'm watching sort of stutter or pulse pauses (very irritating), both picture and sound, and during this issue other functions are slow (e.g., moving around within Tivo's menu). If I turn the Tivo off and later on, it is fine. I've wondered if this is happening when Tivo is doing a connection. Also, a while back, sometimes if I left a show on pause and turned the TV off, then turned it back on later, sometimes the screen would be stuck (locked up) where I left it. I'd have to do a hard boot and everything would be fine. This hasn't happened for a few weeks.

    We could have data corruption or hard drive issues, but I want to wait until my husband can test other Tivos before troubleshooting, so I don't end up Tivoless.

    Sorry, this is so long, but giving the whole picture can get a bit lengthy :(
    Thx again!
     
  19. Eliz1

    Eliz1 New Member

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    Mar 11, 2018
    One thing I noticed, while we still had the phone connection - before changing to ethernet or wireless - the GC and indexing were stuck on the same date as the date of the last successful program guide update. After we changed from the phone connection this updated. So, there had been some gliche with that GC and indexing. Now everything shows current dates in the system info except the last guide update, which is still stuck in Feb.

    We've got another Tivo hooked up now to a different TV and there's some progress going with that. I'll let you know how that goes!
     
  20. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

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    May 15, 2002
    Those are classic sgins of a dying hard drive. Did you want to try and repair it?
     

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