Documenting my Bolt Experiences...

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02/12/2018 - Original Post edited for semi-brevity and reorganization. (Click on any image to open high resolution version in a new tab/window.)
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This thread documents the modifications and upgrades I have made/will make to improve overall performance/capability and maximize the functional lifetime of my TiVO Bolt 500GB.

Thanks to ALL who came before and upon whose shoulders I am standing.

BoltPrime:

Tivo Bolt 500GB (white)
Date of Manufacture: 11 September 2017
Current Software: 21.7.2.RC12 (-USC-11-849)​

THERMAL CONCERNS: In my opinion, the stock machine has serious thermal management issues.

ODT (as delivered): 73° C

This temperature reading shocked me. Isolating BoltPrime completely from external heat sources reduced the temp perhaps by a degree. Initially, I was not controlling for tuners in use, recording, transfers, et al.

Disassembled the unit to take some measurements and begin analysis of the thermal design. Left top covers off as a temporary measure to keep temps down. Here are initial cover-off temps:

Stable 1 Tuner in use Temp: 54° C
Stable 4 Tuner in use Temp: 55° C
Stable 4 Tuner in use and streaming NETFLIX: 55° C

Ordered some materials to improve stock chassis thermal performance:

Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, 50mm x 50mm x 10mm fan
4-pin MOLEX TX4 Extension Cables, 5 each

It appears the stock 15mm fan's headroom is so restrictive that it seriously hampers the already quite limited airflow rate. BoltPrime's 2-pin power supply circuit appears to be acoustically "quiet", but I am still going power the fan from the 4-pin HDD header 12 vdc rail to maximize fan speed/flow. I considered hunting up higher flow fans, but have reconsidered for now.

The prime heat generators in the device are the processor and cable card, but the shielded devices (tuner, et al) near the coax jack generate some heat as well and/or conduct heat from the inadequately cooled CableCard. The chassis engineers' thermal design intent is clear; it was simply, I suspect, compromised by higher priorities (production cost, size, et al). Ultimately, I do not think that I can adequately address the thermal management shortcomings without adding additional airflow. Such is not happening without additional ventilation and/or fan(s).

Consequently, I have purchased 2 additional "dead" Bolts to use for backup (BoltBack) and spare parts (BoltDonor). I can/will hack on the additional cases, keeping the original chassis unmodified.

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02/04/2017 - Thermal Management Update:

On a lark, I moved the fan from its place and simply set it on top of the heatsink, blowing down. Here are the results:

1 Tuner: 40° C
4 Tuners + Netflix: 41° C

An additional 14° C reduction vs. case removed, w/ no forced air.
A full 32° C (44%+) reduction over the "as delivered" configuration by a) blowing a little air over heatsink, and b) providing a larger delta temp between heatsink and surrounding air.



02/12/2018 - Here are the temperatures gathered for BoltPrime to date:

At Idle, OE Fan (CC): 73 ° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 (CC): 64° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, LS elevated (CC): 61° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, LSFI elevated (CC): 59° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, Vertical (CC): 54° C
Sustained transfer, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 (CC): 67° C
Sustained transfer, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, LS elevated (CC): 62° C
Sustained transfer, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, LSFI elevated (CC): 60° C
Sustained transfer, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, Vertical (CC): 56° C

TODO: control for CableCard cover removed vs installed.

• CC = with CableCard; NCC = No CableCard
• LS elevated = Left side of chassis elevated until internal fan is parallel to ground. Idea is that this will assist in breaking the air circulation short circuit and allow a little more efficient internal convection.
• LSFI = LS as above with addition of fan exhaust isolator. (aka: . See images/dimensions.
• "Sustained transfer" = Recordings being written TO the device under test (DUT) from another device.

Note: All temperatures after "At Idle, OE Fan" are with 3TB Toshiba drive w/possible additional heat.

The following images illustrate "Left Side elevated" (LS), fan isolator prototype, and "Left Side elevated with Fan Isolator (LSFI), and Vertical.




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Voltage Probing: Here are the voltage readings from selected locations. The red numbers in the following image correlate with the measurements below.

Vacant 4-pin header adjacent to the SATA header:
Pin 1: 3.55 vdc
Pin 2: 0.00 vdc
Pin 3: 4.76 vdc
Pin 4: 5.09 vdc

Fan Header:
Pin 1: 12.21 vdc
Pin 2: 0.00 vdc

HDD Power Header:
Pin 1: 0.00 vdc
Pin 2: 5.10 vdc
Pin 3: 0.00 vdc
Pin 4: 12.21 vdc

All voltages appeared rock steady on the VOM. I do not have a frequency counter or scope capable to look for switching activity on the 2-pin header power supply circuit.



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Wireless Network Adapter/Antennas: BoltPrime is physically connected to the network with wired Ethernet, so I decided to function test the system without the WiFi adapter installed.

02/04/2018 - Removed the Wireless Network Adapter and set it on top of the HDD to test. Rebooted the Bolt and cannot find any indication that it knows the adapter is missing. The card, antennas, and routing clips could be removed form the chassis. Set a static IP address.

02/06/2018 - Unintended consequences... Bluetooth functions are integrated on the WiFi adapter. Remove it and you lose RF remote capabilities to include VOX. Ultimately, I plan to put BoltPrime in a closet, thus I need to maintain the RF functions.

02/10/2018 - Considering purchasing a Roamio VOX remote with Bluetooth dongle. Should work, and if it does, I can remove the WiFi adapter. I've become concerned that the BoltPrime's WiFi adapter, even not being used, is interfering with my router's WiFi some 12 inches away and may be vulnerable to attack since I have no way to monitor or control it.

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I will continue to post back to this thread with updates as I proceed.

Love this stuff...

 

BoltBack Related Work:

Installation of Internal 4TB Seagate Drive:

02/10/2018 - OK, with the backup Bolt (BoltBack) up and running, I moved on to replacing the disk drive to increase the storage capacity and frankly just for the practice using the tools and procedures.

Pretty uneventful really...

1) Removed 500GB drive with antenna wire clips left in place.
2) Removed SATA/PWR connector from OE drive and put it in place on the Seagate 4TB drive. (no mount bracket yet)
3) Plugged HDD pwr and data cables in and set disk drive in place next to motherboard.
4) Booted BoltBack up to "Country Screen".
5) Pulled power plug from back of unit.
6) Attached 4TB drive to laptop using USB connector and wire mentioned in Post #75 above.
7) Ran mfsr.exe with right-click, "Run as Administrator", and reformatted the drive.
8) USB ejected and disconnected drive when it was finished.
9) Installed Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 in place of OEM fan, connected temporarily to OEM 2-pin header.
10) Mounted drive in bracket, put SATA interface back on it, installed and re-assembled BolBack fully, sans screws. (Left those out to aid disassembly later until all finished).

Booted machine up, completed Guided Setup, and machine is working perfectly with 640 HD hour capacity advertised.

NOTE: I "prepared" the drive using the "B" option of the DISKPART procedure in Post #75 above prior to first installation. Not required, but I've decided this will be part of my standard procedure prior to placing ANY drive into TiVo service to remove drive condition from troubleshooting consideration if a problem arises. Alternatively, I may begin using WD's DLD if it works successfully in my testing.

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Thermal Management:

02/10/2018 - Fan on OE 2-pin power header has dropped idle temperature of the box from 54° C to 49° C fully assembled. Will post back once the materials arrive to build the inline tap for the 4-pin, HDD power header.

02/11/2018 - This will be updated in a piecemeal fashion as I accomplish other tasks.

At Idle, OE Fan (NCC): 54° C
At Idle, OE Fan (CC): 60° C
At Idle, OE Fan, LS elevated (CC): 59° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 (NCC): 49° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 (CC): 61° C
At Idle, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2, LS elevated (CC): 56° C
Sustained transfer, OE Fan (NCC): 58° C
Sustained transfer, OE Fan (CC): 64° C
Sustained transfer, OE Fan, LS elevated (CC): 64° C
Sustained transfer, Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 (NCC): 59° C

* CC = with CableCard; NCC = No CableCard
* LS elevated = Left side of chassis elevated until internal fan is parallel to ground. Idea is that this will assist in breaking the air circulation short circuit and allow a little more efficient internal convection.

 

Reserved for future use #2

 

Reserved for future use #3

 

Yep... that just seems way too high to maintain a healthy machine in the long term.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the max temp for the processor is much past 80° C.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Joe...

It is my unferstanding that the newer Bolt has an "on die" temp sensor, meaning INSIDE the processor case. This is similar to most computer processors made in the last 15-20 years.

The ODT that I am quoting is from the TiVo software on the Bolt from the third screen of Menu--> Help--> Account & System Info--> System Information

Alternatively the New TiVo Mini I just got terms the temp, "MBT" which typically means "motherboard temperature".

Mine is 68° C right now streaming Amazon.... resting is in the high 50s. No telling for sure where the sensor is in the mini, since it is a fanless design with little interior flow.

 

Hi!

I'm not making comparisons. I'm simply reacting to:

1) The seemingly excessive on die temperature.

2) The 18° C delta in on die temperature between a stock boxed BOLT and with the case stripped off.

High ODT can reduce service life of the processor, and the higher resulting interior temps can negatively affect performance and service life of other components.

The high temp delta points to serious thermal design compromises in the design.... which frankly are evident from a cursory inspection.

It is clear that they did the best they could within the constraints placed upon them.... engineering is a war of compromises.

But thermal management got the short end of the stick this time.

You can bend the laws of physics, but you cannot break them.

My list of engineering concerns does not prioritize looks.... My #1 priority behind performance is longevity. One of the best ways to increase longevity is to keep temperatures as low as possible within the limits of other constraints.... chiefly money.

Enjoy your Sunday!
-Clay

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

Interesting.... When did you get that version? Both my Bolt and mini are on 21.7.2.RC12 (different extensions). Bolt has ODT and mini has MBT.

MBT does cast some murkiness about where the temp sensor is located, but on the Bolt at least, I will proceed with the idea that it is on the BCM7449S die versus a themistor chip on the motherboard until I get concrete proof to the contrary.

Yes, reducing thermal swings is a close cousin to keeping temps low. Thermal cycling CAN shorten lifespans, but I don't think you have anything to worry about with a 4° C swing. In my experience, it requires a much larger swing and/or a higher frequency of cycling to appreciably shorten lifespan, all other things being equal. But added to excessively high component temps, it just adds insult to injury.

Yes, # of tuners and streaming made little difference in my measurements either.... the spread I observed could have largely been due to the HVAC in the house being on or off, or other factors, or a combination of factors.

 

Is that box stock? Do you know the ambient temp around the device? Is it in the path of your HVAC vent or other airflow? What is the build date for your machine? DO you have a pin heatsink or a finned heatsink on your main processor? I'm trying to pin down the wide variances in temp from machine to machine.

It is weird isn't it. My Bolt and Mini are on the same software base, but the extensions are quite different.

 

Extensions: That's what I figured. Thanks for the confirmation and additional specifics.

Ohhhhh.... I just noticed the major revision on the version number you posted. Doh!
Thanks for the link!

 

Just finished testing the removal of the Wireless Adapter Card and posted the edit to Post #1.

Success! The Bolt exhibits no error or indication that the card is removed, though the machine remained connected to the wired network. Will remove the components and store them with the original case when I do the fan replacement and case bottom replacement.

I'm also shopping for the neoprene rubber with PSA both sides (in various thicknesses) that TiVo uses to attach the antenna to the fan and prop up the end of the heatsink, and attackes the other two antenna mounts to the case bottom. Already have the double-sided tape used to attach the 2 antennas to their mounting brackets.

NOTE: Of course, you also lose the RF Remote and have IR Remote only.

Click on the image for a full resolution version in a new window.